The names have been changed to protect the innocent, etc.
Hi:
I have been doing some research on Amway because this next Sunday I will be hosting some friends who are coming to my area for a large Amway meeting in the convention center of our area. (I cannot find this meeting advertised anyplace in the papers but the convention center is the site, therefore I am sure it is large.)
I am SURE it is Amway. I KNOW they are involved in Amway. I will not go into detail of how I know these things as it is unimportant. I am very close to the woman of this couple. Our parents were best friends thru life and I sat by the bed of her father as he died two years ago. That is when I found they were involved in Amway.
This couple practically invited themselves to spend a night in our house after their convention involving their new "multi-level marketing business". They have just retired and I know for a fact they are well-off financially. (Her father - she is an only child - had lots of money!) Never in my adult life has this woman called me or tried to visit me in my home. Never before has she had much interest in my life, including the time I spent with her father as he died. (He and his wife were like second parents to me as my parents were like second parents to her.)
I am sure, after reading all the things I have about Amway we are going to be approached by them and that they will be in a very zealous mood after attending this convention. I would appreciate any help you can give me in handling this situation. I do not wish to fight with them.
My husband and I have opened our own business within the last year. It is an engineering consulting firm and we are progressing nicely. I am sure this will be brought up by them and I am sure we will be told we could do better with Amway. I am not afraid of confrontation - but would prefer not to have to deal with it. If you have any suggestions for me I would be very appreciative.
Thank you,
I would very much appreciate a copy of the letter. And, please let me know if you receive a reply. This sort of manipulation of "child-like" Christians should not be allowed to happen without some sort of protest. Although, I have ambivalent feelings about adults who respond to life in a "child-like" fashion regarding this area. I have often wished I could be like them and not be confronted with the "real" world situations life brings. But, I guess I am "cursed" in being a realist when it comes to life lessons and I learn them quickly. :)
I have traveled alot in the last few years. Especially in the far east - Red China through my husbands business trips. I have seen what the world has to offer and I know that this country is the best there is. I am conservative in political persuasion and I know this country has many wrongs in its attitudes. I am also an ex-school teacher by choice. I fear greatly for the education of our country. I feel Amway will get a large toe-hold with this reglious route it has taken. It makes me very scared that it is another giant step toward socialism in this great country of ours. It is insidious to say the least.
Again, thank you for your reply and for your information for me to follow. I will take a look at the web site you suggested and give you my opinion if you are interested. I think we are on the same wave-length on this.
I am just very sad that this person in my life who has been like a sister to me has gone down this trail. She is older than I am by six years and has always looked on me as the "little sister" who does not know much. I just know I will never be able to change her mind (and I surely will not try), and I feel in my heart that when they visit my home for the first time in my life it will end our ties of friendship and close relationship that was born of the 50+ year tie that our parents had. It is like knowing that a person close to you is going to die but they don't know it. Sorry to be maudlin. :)
Thanks again,
Thanks for your letter. My husband and I are both letter-writers to address issues we feel strongly about. Yours is very thorough and I am sure you will "never" get a reply. (A sure sign that the receiver cannot logically contradict your views!)
I went to Dr. Moore's web-page. One of the things that struck me was the lengths he went to telling Amway people how to find a church. _Why_ should Amway people need to disclose "how" they make a living when searching for a church. My family and I have made several major moves in our lives and I have gone through the process of hunting for a church each time. It never was even a consideration in my mind that any church we chose to visit would care where our income came from. Who we were employed by was never a part of our decision in joining a church, or finding a doctor or any of the other needs one meets in moving into a new community.
Dr. Moore speaks loudly in volumes when he goes to such lengths to tell Amway people "how" to go about finding a church.
Two of the things he tells me are:
1. Amway people are not welcome in many church's. This should scare
anyone out of Amway.
2. Amway has such a poor reputation that even their leaders have to tell them how to handel the ostrcism they are going to receive.
My family has never been ostracized from any part of society because of anything we've ever done much less because of our employer. Why would anyone want to work with a company that could and probably would ruin their reputation? This is all very far beyound anything I can imagine.
Well, again - thanks for all the info you have given me. I feel a little better prepared for our visitors. At least - I have "some" understanding of what they will be like. I have planned to have the house full of family and activity (including my 3 year old grandson) while they are here. I'm hoping that will keep any serious conversation about Amway from happening. also - we are truly busy with our new engineering firm having recently just won 3 goverment contracts.
Sorry this "note" turned into a tome! :) If you are interested, I will let you know how the visit comes out.
As a matter of fact, I fired off an email about a month ago asking the FTC to consider doing an updated "review" of the Amway business. It was never replied to. I have considered the possibility of a major class-action suit against the corporation where many former and maybe even current distributors are part of the suit. I emailed Amway once to ask how much volume was done in the US. A woman named Jamie Fellinger answered and said they dont give out that info. So I emailed her again, and Cc'd a copy to the FTC. She replied and stated that only 30% of Amway's volume was domestic and laughed at me saying--by the way, thanks for sending a copy of your message to the FTC, haha--and went on to say what a good reputation they had with the FTC? Hasn't it been almost 20 years since the FTC looked the company over?
I was never a direct, in fact, just a 1,000 pin with about 15 people. But while I was in I lost my job. I was told to "keep doing what youre doing". I filed for bankruptcy, and like a brainwashed fool, I put in a $500 tool order just a coupld of months later--because if you cant afford to something then you cant afford not to--right? Anyway, my sponsor who was aware of my financial hardship was glad to place that tool order for me. My life was very difficult for quite awhile following that.
I myself have considered starting some kind of campaign using either newspaper letters to the editor where I expose the business to people in different parts of the country or show up at open meetings and pass out some truthful literature to people as they leave.
I really don't know what to do as you can tell. But I want to help in any way that I can to bring this business to its knees. I am a loyal anti-Amway soldier, if you will. But I want to do everything honest, legal, and with some class.
**Please let me know how I can help you and your friends in any way.**
I've been in Amway for the past 9 months when my wife thought it to be a good idea. I began getting excited about the biz a couple of months back when our sponsor gave us a couple of tapes.
I work as a producer for a radio talk show and mentioned one day to the host I was in Amway and that many of the values he espoused were also echoed by Amway distributors. He wanted to do a show on Amway and home-based businesses, etc. So, I began researching Amway on the 'net. I came across several anti-Amway sites, including Sidney Schwartz's site. I began really wondering what the hell I was doing. To their credit, my sponsor and upline have been good about tapes, books and seminars - not telling me I "must" go or anything. However, just last week I booked my trip to Orlando for a weekend function and now, am rather dreading it. Luckily, I am not in debt(other than a mortgage), but doing the research has opened my eyes to not go the functions "at any cost."
I did want to tell you I find your site very fair in it's presentation, yes it has information Amway would rather not be known, but more importantly, I see little of a judgemental attitude which I admire. Sidney's site seems more ... vindictive or at least more negative. Some of the other sites I clicked on just seemed to be whining.
You've given me much to think about. Will I stay in? I can't say right now. If nothing else, you've helped me see that I must keep my eyes wide open for anyone who tells me to "sleep when I'm Diamond" or "pay it off when I'm Diamond." So far I've not encountered any such insensitive statements.
Thanks again for helping me to think this out a bit more.
Dear Sir, I have read through your various articles on the web about the Amway business, and its distributors.
I have been in the business for a couple of years now, mainly buying products for myself for the first 18 months or so. Last year I made the decision to build my business to Direct and beyond for reasons I will not go into, as I wish to be brief.
I don't wish to sound apologetic, as I am proud of what I am doing, and you and I both know the business works, when sound principles and ethics are applied. In the Britt organization, these ethics and principles are clearly stated and taught at all the major functions, and hopefully at local meetings.
However, as in every business , there are not always proper lines of communication and of course, not all people (even in our business) are not observant of the codes of conduct. I am truly sorry for those people. But, just because I get a warm burger at one Wendy's restaurant does not mean that I will never visit another Wendy's, and I will never let the conduct of a few persons get in the way of my success, and as you know, truly successful people that have a following share this feeling.
One point of fact, and then I am finshed. In your article, you stated that distributors were encouraged, nay, exhorted to put their business before thier jobs, family, and financial responsibilities. This is NOT a principle taught by the Britt organization. In every function I have attended, the precedence was placed in order of God, (optional) Country,Family,and Job, with the Amway business in fourth or fith place. My friend, that is straight from Bill Britts's mouth and you can quote me! And my apologies to my fellow distributors whose upline taught them different.
I will reccomend your article to my fellow distributors, We need to regulate ourselves, or face regulation by sterner means. No matter what a few have done, Amway is still "The greatest opportunity in the history of the world".
God Bless...
A friend of mine at work is in "THE BUSINESS". I have tried talking to him about it, but he seems to be almost embarrass by the whole thing. He has really changed in the past couple of years also. Here are just a couple of things that I have noticed.
Always going on trips to far away places.
Computer screen saver that says "I want to be rich" and then changed it to "I want to be richer"
Has very late weekday travel to towns 2 hours from home. This man, before becoming an Amway Dist., went to bed before 10.
Will never talk about how much money he is making, but is always trying to make people think he almost worth a million.
Took his kids out of the pubic school and home schooled them.
Has a handheld tape recorded in his van.
Seems like he has a lot of ups and downs -mentally.
I went to a dinner with some people at work with him and his wife and I thought they would never shut up. I could not get a work in edge wise. They always had something in common with our visitors - well I guess you had to have been there!!!
Uses breath spray, has a couple a cans of the stuff in his van.
Changes churches all the time, 3 in the past 5 years.
Never listens to the news.
How can I help him.
Maybe I need help because I notice how much he changing. ha
Greetings,
I have been approached about becoming a distributor, and I have attended one of the open weekly meetings. I found your site, and AUS, to counter the unabashedly positive outlook.
By way of info, my wife and I are both lawyers on Long Island, NY. Our inclination is to shy away from these sorts of money-making devices, because frankly, there just ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Certainly, none of the speakers, tapes or literature allude to what's contained in your pages. In fact, and I would appreciate it you could confirm or deny this, there seems to be a concerted effort "not" to permit new initiates to mention the downsides. I met with the main speaker after the open meeting, who is a Diamond (I still don't know what that means, exactly, but I assume that he must have been doing a lot of sponsoring). I mentioned that there are certain individuals working for the IRS whose blood pressure would increase if they heard the name "Rich DeVos". He became very incensed, citing me chapter and verse of the FTC decision that decreed that Amway is not a pyramid scheme. Note that I brought up the IRS to him, not the FTC. I assume that somebody with his level of involvement and success (of which he boasted of constantly--another turn-off, but another story, too) is not stupid, so I presume that the master plan is to convince us that the FTC speaks for the government, and that the government in toto has blessed Amway. I rather think not.
I have not had time to review all your pages, but I am curious about a couple of things. First, are the products sold by Amway, such as their detergents, etc., any good? And second, have you found any direct distributor who, in a moment of pure candor or otherwise, who is willing to say that the emperor indeed has no clothes?
I suspect that we are not going to become involved. I appreciate your efforts.
I wrote this at about 4:00am my time, so please excuse the tired language.
I've been doing AMWAY since February(200 pv/mth). My sponsor just went direct. I never would have considered joining AMWAY except for the identity of my sponsor. I knew him from work and know that he's been making over $150,000/yr for the last 15 or so years.
Basically, every instinct in my body told me that AMWAY was too good to be true, but I couldn't argue with his success: 1) He had built the business in his spare time, I knew this because I worked with him and knew the hours he put in at the office; 2) He was making great money at his real job--so why would he spend time on AMWAY?; and 3) He told me that he'd spent months checking out the details, running the numbers, and that the system would work.
I trusted him over my instincts and fought my own doubts (i.e., the money for tapes and meetings, the absurdity of standing order tapes, impossible amounts of personal use necessary to move 100 PV, most of AMWAY's recent growth probably coming from oversees, etc.)
Without delving too deeply into my own life, I can tell you that, about one year ago, I changed careers to start a more "idealistic" business. As with most new businesses, we had some hard times. Given my being wrapped up in trying to save that business, I did not have the time to research AMWAY and my doubts myself. Instead, I trusted that my sponsor (whom I had known and respected for his thoroughness and intellect) had done it for himself.
Well, this is a roundabout way of my getting to the point, which is that I can tell in reading your website (I read every word) that you and I are of a similar mental and analytical type. Therefore, I'm trusting your analysis.
I used to draft similarly lengthy documents, with detailed numerical analyses. I would be very proud to claim your research as my own. You are to be commended for your work.
Thank you for taking the time to analyze AMWAY as throroughly as I would have, if only I had had the time. I hope your efforts brought you some sense of fulfillment.
I do have one tiny suggestion. On the chart of Diamonds and Emeralds from each state from 1992-97, if you added a Total at the bottom (for the entire US) I believe future readers would find such a number very useful. I added the totals up for my own information.
Once again, great job. You kept me up all night, but I'm sure you've saved me hundreds of hours of time.
Howdy from Texas Charles,
My wife and I are "technically" still distributors, have been for 3 years, been plugged into the system "tapes, books, and functions" - have not missed a single function till recently. We sponsored six people and had some customers - we did 100 PV every month for the 3 years until recently. Admittantly, I did not show the plan 15 to 50 times a month as my upline suggested and strongly encouraged. Amazing, our upline, in the beginning, pitched "Only 8 to 10 hours a week is all it takes!" and progressed to "50 plans a month, don't look back!" Bottom line - we enjoyed the positive atmosphere and the excitement, but it became much too expensive to continue without building a business and generating a profit. My question, however, is how this thing has grown to the size it has and is apparently continuing to grow? How long will it continue? Do you ever see it coming to an end? Would appreciate your thoughts and analysis. Thanks.
To answer your question on the 10-customer rule, no my upline did not ever inquire about customers and when we were sponsored, the requirement was explained as follows, "Don't worry about the retail / 10-customer thing, by the time your business is up and running good, you will have customers." We received a PB check every month for nearly 3 years and never had any more than 5 or 6 customers. In every case we sold products to our customers at distributor cost because we couldn't bring ourselves to charge the ridiculous retail prices. The customers, included with the people we sponsored, may have added to 10 but I know that we most likely never had 10 in any single month make a purchase. We never solicited for retail purposes, we were told by our upline, "that's not the way to make the big money, networking (signing up more people) is the way to make the big money." I am in the JBC (Jerry Boggus Corporation) line of sponsorship - definately a Yagerized line of sponsorship. J. Boggus is a diamond, been in the business for 25 or so years - a question I've always been unable to surpress with tapes and functions is, why is Mr. Boggus just a diamond after so many years, during all of that time he has not been able to find and hold on to more than 6 to 8 direct distributors in a given year? In fairness to him, perhaps he doesn't want to get any bigger - hard to believe.
Now that Amway has changed the policy to the 50 PV requirement, that will not be a big deal, and assuming the FTC buys into it, nothing will ever be challenged. 50 PV will be a snap, i.e. 2 to 4 good nutrilite/vitamin and laundry detergent customers a month will easily generate the 50 PV, but then the business focuses on signing up new distributors, buying from themselves, to generate worth while profit.
Here are two items that perhaps led to my posing challenges that caused my
fall from grace with my upline:
1) It is common to hear Dexter Yager and his organization make the
statement, "We have just begun in this business, we have not scratched the
scratch of the scratch of the surface yet!" This sounds very much like he's
promoting a "ground floor" opportunity - one of the signs that is typically
given as a warning sign of a pyramid scheme. My question to Dex is, will you
ever let us know when we've scratched the scratch of the scratch? Sounds
like a fair question since he promotes a system that requires total faith.
2) When we achieved 1000 PV (most of which was purchase by us), we qualified for "Lake Day" with the JBC Organization. A day to go and enjoy their home and toys (4 wheelers, jet skies, swimming, and association with your upline) located in Georgia. We had to find our own way to the event. The house and grounds were not a mansion but a very nice place, he has obviously made money in Amway and "The System". One of the benefits was to sit in their home and listen to them provide pearls of wisdom on building "The Business". Mrs. Boggus (Peggy) made a comment that stuck and caused a great question to surface in my mind. Jerry and Peggy have children who are involved in "The Business" and (I assume, are distributors). Peggy posed the question to all of us as follows, "We (the Bogguses) have been in this business for a long time and our children are involved as well, do you think we would have our own children get involved in a business that has no future or who's future is questionable?" My response (which certainly could not be surfaced in that forum for fear of being stoned) is, "Peggy, would you ever tell us or let us know, if it ever occurs, that 'The Business' has a questionable future or may not be a good idea - we're 'family' here in a system that requires blind, unquestioning faith?"
In closing, I must admit, in the evenings while pondering the universe, I still wonder, what if it would work? I'm a recently retired and presently unemployed Army officer with two children in high school and one starting college next year. I was a tanker in the Army, not a big demand for tanks on our highways these days. I still wonder, if I could build it to diamond in 5 or even 10 years and be making $100K to $150K per year, wouldn't that be nice? About that time, the price required drifts into my mind, the funds required to stay plugged into the system and the endless hours required on the interstates and highways, away from home, away from family, not to mention the dangers to myself and others associated with being on the highways, half asleep and dogged tired.
That's all for now, again, thanks for your response, very helpful, unlike my upline recently.
Hi Charles;
Thanks for the great website. My wife and I have been distributors for about 8 months now. After seeing the infor you have presented, doing some outside investigation and some soul searching we have come to a conclusion: We have had ENOUGH.
I our line of sponsorship (The Yeager scamtym) we have noticed most of the observations that you and others have pointed out. The items of concern that we note are:
1) Basic outright lying to prospects concerning facts and figures
published by reputable sources.
2) Failure to inform and/or abide by the Rules of Conduct. Specifically
the retail sales items (be it 10 Retail sales or 50PV total sales),
being in illegal operation, or pyramid style scheme. This to us
is unethical and illegal.
3) Destination of our 4% shipping charge.
4) Extra profit due to charging of tax in resident state. Our direct
lives in MASS which has a 5% sales tax. We live in RI which has
a 7% sales tax. The surplus 2% is kept by the direct because
he does not seperate RI and MASS distributorships. That is about
an extra $300 per month if you just consider 40 distributors in
RI.
5) Inclusion of Religious doctrine and prayer in all business areas.
This includes Seminars and Rallies to AMVOX messages concerning
'born again' people and the business. Also to note about AMVOX,
it is used to peddle political commentary concerning votes on
issues that the Republican party has a major concern.
6) Hassle of product pickup.
7) Loss of free-time that was essentially wasted-time.
8) Increase in personal debt.
I have noted that in several locations it is mentioned that a distributor can recoup some of the monies spent on various tools and functions. Could you give us more information about this? Any information would be helpful. Who do we see about getting our money back? Do we talk with our Direct, our Sponsor, or the corporation? What tools are refundable (Tape of the week?, book of the month? seminars? videos? unsold kits? etc)? How long and how much trouble do you expect us to have in refunding these items?
If you wish, we can send you the results of our experince with either our membership or our de-membership.
Thank you very much for the time and effort you have put into this web page. We should have looked at it a first opportunity. As a result of these questions, you may want to consider putting in a page for those current distributors that would like to quit but don't realize that could get some of their money back.
Just thought I would give you a follow-up on our visitors. They just left about an hour ago. Yes - they stayed three days. That was because my husband had to go out of town on business the day after they got here. They waited for him to get back so they could give us the pitch.
They never mentioned Amway until this morning. It was always "their business" and how well they were doing. We visited very well for the first two days. Actually until late last night. They did not talk much about their "business" because they were too tired most of the time. You were right - they had had only about 3 hours sleep the whole week-end. They kept nodding off when we talked! Once I sent them up to bed during the day because they both fell sound asleep while we were talking.
My husband got back about 10:00 last night. About 11:00, the woman told her husband that he should tell us about their business. I was shocked. I thought maybe we would get away without it. HA! He said no, they would wait until this morning. That gave me all night to think of a plan!
At 6:00am I faxed my sister in Dallas the following note:
URGENT!! HELP!! Being held captive by amway pitch. Please call (our business number) at 8:00am and follow the instructions of the captive. Failure to do this will cause great harm to the captives!
So - my sister called and my husband talked to her and told her to fax us something that looked like some business proposals and that we needed to urgently get together all of our information to submit today on this project.
I thought if we got too busy they would leave quietly. HA! (They had said they were leaving early this morning.) We carried off our plan well. We appeared very busy and they said they would get out of our hair right away. I thought - IT WORKED! HA!!
Just before they left, they told me they wanted only 15 minutes to show me what they had. They knew my husband was too busy! So - I got the pitch.
I told them I would take the info and show it to my husband and children and let them know. They have something new - selling everything imaginable on a plan. You can buy in bulk monthly and they deliver to your door. To get rid of them I filled out one of the forms so they could work up an estimate and tell us what we could save. We would never have to go to the store again! (Except for persible foods)!
They finally left. I am drained and needless to say we will not buy into the plan - whatever we could save.
Know this is long - but thought I would let you know. All is alive and well in Amway Land!
About two years a go, my husband and I (at that time newly weds and still in school) were sucked into the amway cult. We lost hundreds of dollars which at that time could not afford to do(who can any time) and were in no way satisfied with the products. We were told to just hold on, that it would get better but it just got more expensive.
Breaking away from the cult(just before we had to file chapter 7 bankruptcy) was no easy task either. We felt as though we were being condemned and all of our "Amway Family" suddenly became our worst enemies.
Then trying to return those money back garantee products and tools was a total waste of my time.
For some strange reason they could not refund my items and the rules and stories kept changing. What can I do about this?????
Thanks for the added info on refunds from the upline.
I would like to note that I didn't mean the original letter to have a sour or bashing tone to it. I feel not hatered towards the people that we have dealt with. For the most part they are nice, concerned people. There are a few rotten apples, but that is to be expected in any culture.
In our journey through the Amway world, we may not have spent as much money as others. We have not dug ourselves into debt. But also we were not that active. We never did feel comfortable telling others things that we did not fully believe. We just didn't trust the informatin available completely enough to go out and *sell* the buisness to others. We could't put our finger on what was bothering us about the numbers or the comments made here and there at meatings. Until I found your (and others) web pages concerning the research numbers. And we had the collective "yeah, that's right. It just didn't click before."
I have been researching through the Compendium (we did open it, but didn't quite realize what was in it). I calculate that we must have bought about $1500 to $2000 worth of BSMs alone. Both Amway and Diamond produced. From reading the rules, I have the all the legal rights to obtain a refund on much of the tools.
I have made an appointment with our sponsors to see them. At that meeting we will spring the surprise on them. This is not the first time they have had someone quit. But they may never have had someone demand to be re-imbersed for as much as we plan. I'm sure the Direct must have seen similar situations before and will be more prepared.
From what I have heard and seen on the web, when most distributors quit, they just quit. They don't realize, have the drive, or are too scared to actually try to get thier money back. If as people quit, everyone of them demanded a refund, you would most likely see some definate change in the operation of the business.
We have about $200 in Amway only products and material that we plan on using with the *Buy-back program* outlined in the Compendium. We also have about $800 in returnable BSMs including 2 unused Summer conference tickets. We do not actually expect our sponsor to be able to buy back ALL of these items. At minimum, I expect all of the Amway and some of the BSMs to taken back by them.
Our next step is planned to be our directs. I'm sure that after our meeting with our sponsors, the direct will want to get in touch and see us.
Just in case, we will be prepared: We will bring our tape recorder. I don't mean to use it in a malicious manner, just as a precaution. If the conversations begin to become *heated* or unproductive, I plan on taking out the recorder (Note that it is OFF), press record and say: "I hope you don't mind, but is was suggested that I record this conversation. I fealt that knowing you, I would not have to resort to such things, but I guess we didn't really know you." My hope is that, when people know that they are being recorded, the will be more polite and tend to follow the law better.
I will update you by the end of the week with information on our sponsor meating at least. And at most the final result of our experience. I do expect this to drag on for a few weeks. Anything more than 2 weeks and I will begin my letterwriting campain.
For the past week I am doing what we should have done BEFORE joining the buisness: Research. I have the legal information now, examples of untruths, and the gameplan for responding to setbacks.
Maybe you could setup a section on your web page to ask visitors how they went about quitting. In this way others will be more informed about what can be done and what works.
I have my first update for you. Events are progressing well. We have not been alienated by our upline. We are still on good speaking terms with our sponsors.
Specifics:
We made an appointment for Wednesday evening. We gave no hint of our intentions at any time prior to our meeting. We talk with our downline previously to tell them that we are leaving the business. We did not go into the whole deal with ethical values and cheating. We left them with a pile of information for them to sift through if they wish. They can make their own conclusions from this data.
We met at our sponsors home. We sat down and said, "We came here to tell you that we no longer wish do to the Amway business." We let the shock settle for a few seconds and added a little bit more. They finally asked "why". At that we went into a few examples of the ethics. We stayed away from the biggest ones. We kept those in reserve if needed in a future conversation.
They accepted what we had to say. Tried to convince us to just try to really build the business for a 30 day time period. Really build it with the upline. Let them show us it really can work. But this completely ignored the fact that we said we found the business unethical. Oh well, sometimes you only hear what you want to hear.
After some talk, I went to the car to get the 3 (small) boxes of tools and products. They accept the fact that we wish to obtain a refund and I believe they are doing what they can in good faith. We left the stuff with them (not recomended, really), but with an itemized list that I have previously made. I will give them about 3 weeks to be well along on the refund road.
We made an appointment to see our directs at a MacDonalds about halfway between us on Friday. There we discussed why we were leaving. It was amiable, but they just didn't understand our perspective. It was if we were just speaking a different language. We never argued, just discussed.
The fun part was when we tried to get our money back on un-used (still good) tickets for Summer Conference. He said, we don't buy back tools. I thought, Oh man, here we go. I took out the Compendium and read the section concerning tools and seminars. He said OK, I'll look into it.
I some ways, these people (our upline) don't seem to be the brightest of people. We bought our tickets for $90. After a certain date they went up to $100. It was after that date. Don't you think it would be smart for them to jump at the opportunity to buy back the tickets now and sell them at a $10 profit? It took 2 days for them to figure it out. *Then* they got really excited about buying back the tickets.
So we have been refunded $180 so far with about $500 in items (products and tools) left to go.
I saw your new section on the web. Thanks for the great job you are doing.
> You did say you're in Yager's group right? Do they use a
> Tools purchase agreement? If so, could you email me the
> section where it talks about refunds?
I did not, nor have I seen a purchase agreement. I saw that as a posible problem, but I planned to deal with it if anything unusual happened.
>From what I understand, most people who quit, just quit.
Doesn't matter what stuff they are stuck with.
Maybe I will set an interesting example for others
in my particular group.
I follow the official rules outlined by the Amway corporation. If needed I will mention that the rules as written in the Compendium are the ones accepted by the FTC. Any changes may invalidate the decision, and require an FTC review to determine the legality of the changes. That may put a stick up a certain body part.
I am prepared. If things don't move they way I want, I plan to contact a lot of people. FTC, BBB, State Congress, Federal Congress, SBA, etc...
We'll see what eventually happens.
Wow. I must commend you for your website and all the good you are doing
there. I have been enlightened further than I thought possible with
regard to what I have gotten myself into. Who knew the whole world of
Amway?!! It is awesome, it is incredible, it is unbearably familiar,
and I am not with the Yager or the Britt group - but - sounds very
familiar and similar. In fact, I kind of don't know what group I'm in,
because the diamond we have is the Griffiths and the diamond ambassador
is Bev Johnson - now renamed Bev Sallee. I have been in Amway since Jan
13, 1996 - and every time I had a question - it was evaded in some way.
I have never seen the TOOLS form you mention and so have never signed
anything like it. I myself discovered the 10-15 retail customer monthly
form and brought it to a Nuts and Bolts meeting and handed it to a
Direct Distributor and asked her what it was. She had never seen it
before - but would check into it. I never heard back from her regarding
it and she never gave me back the form. The Christianity thing is
definitely out of whack - and I find it personally very restrictive.
When I went to FED last year - and retired to my hotel room (which I was
sharing that evening with a nice couple my sponsors knew, and my
sponsors) my sponsor's husband opens up his BIBLE in the hotel room that
we are all sharing, and reads, OUT LOUD, the David and Goliath story,
and describes how he feels that Rudy Ruttiger (one of those speakers
that evening - who must've made some $10K for the evening's work) was
David pitted against Goliath. They all opened their BIBLEs and followed
along with the story - while I sat on one of the bed's and opened up my
book, IN THE LAP OF THE BUDDHA, and ignored them. This had not happened
all year long - and I went to every major function and every Open
(except one or two all year) - . When INA stood up on the stage and
said, "I want you to see who is working for you on the INA Board", and
they paraded out Christian men (and announced them that way), and
admitted to having one Jewish guy - (no women, no Atheists, no Mormons,
no Buddhists). I was concerned. I did not feel represented. When
speakers tried to imply that we ought to vote Republican - and then
would disclaim what they said from the stage by saying "gee, I hope you
aren't going to go back home after this weekend and call up Amway and
complain that we were trying to tell you how to vote." Well, what were
they doing? I am single, trying to build a single business, and all I
see around me are married couples, using their combined incomes, if they
have them, to get ahead - and I am unable to compete or reach that
arena. After reading your site and others posted on the WEB, and
educating myself about Amway, and most especially about INA and
organizations like it, I now understand much more clearly why these "6
figure income people" are willing to come and tell me their business
secrets. I am paying them a hefty income! Unbelievable! Excuse me now
while I leave, as I need to write a few letters and put the
responsibility of integrity and ethics back into my sponsors, et.al.,
hands and hearts. PS: I did make 300PV for two months. I have about 5-6
retail customers;who are non-too-regular with ordering. Guess who put
herself in deeper debt the months of Oct and Nov in order to get a 300PV
pin, a photo of myself in a gold-leafed frame
I was today approached by a distributer who did not mention Amway but he
spoke about the Britt system introduced by Bill & Peggy Bill. I later
discovered that he was talking about Amway. What is the Britt system?
Why is it that Amway always tries to hide its name or to disguises it
under other names? The distributer asked me if I had anything against
the name Amway. How exactly is Amway different from other MLM
businesses? I am happy to find that there is someone who is truly giving
me the true picture about the business rather than impressing me with
the size and the growth of the company.