I've changed my policy concerning email. I get a lot of email that I get either thanks me for having the web-site up or bashes me for having it up. I am now just displaying peoples stories.
The names have been changed to protect the innocent, etc.
You have a wonderful site, and along with Sidney and the others, you are providing an indispensable resource. I wish I'd have been able to drawn on this info. before my wife and I got into the Britt System early last year, but that's thankfully in the past.
First, my question: I noticed in your comments section several references to a new cult-related homepage. Do you know when and where I can find this page?
Now my comment(s): the pro-Amway responses on all of these sites should frighten both distributors and non-distributors alike. Look at the similarities. It's as though they were generated from a template..."You must have nothing better to do...What are you offering?...You just want to blame your failures on someone else...You won't succeed at anything...You're going to stay broke...Hey, it's a 6-billion dollar company...would Coca-Cola get involved with an unethical company?..." and on and on and on.
DISTRIBUTORS, PLEASE GET AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT!! Whether your system is Britt, Yager, INA or YMCA, you all say that YOUR system is the key, but newsflash--you're all the SAME!! Sure, every now and then there's a true outlier. For example, one of the new sections on Sidney's site has a response from an Emerald who drinks beer with his group and laughs at the Amroids. That's great, but sadly, far too rare in the company and unheard of in the big cult systems like Britt's.
(It's worth noting that, by and large, we critics are indicting the SYSTEMS and not Amway itself, although, unfortunately for Amway, the line gets blurrier all the time. So please drop the "debt-free-$6 billion-everyone-wants-to-do-business-with-us" schtick. The $6 billion is ESTIMATED RETAIL, though all personal consumption is bought by the end user (you) at wholesale. Gee, that's honest. Also, much of the $6 billion comes from overseas; got any international legs? No? Well then, you're overstating your market by a factor of 2 or 3. Coke has one silly little office soda fountain buried deep in the Personal Shoppers catalogue--and you PERSONALLY are "in business" with Coca-Cola? You tell that to prospects, don't you? Well then, I must be "in business" with Packard Bell right now...)
I ask the diistributors--is there even an ounce of logic and free will left in you? Now, THINK LOGICALLY ABOUT YOUR RESPONSES to Charles, Sidney and your "broke" brother-in-law. Do you really think Charles has nothing better to do than read a disk full of painfully repetitive E-mail? I'll bet he'd like to visit friends, attend a concert or show, or play sports. Is it really rational to suggest that he has NOTHING better to do? And do you really think Sidney has NEVER succeeded at ANYTHING? Not very reasonable is it? Could you design and maintain a high-volume web page? If you can't, then shut up. If you can or have, do you consider your achievement a failure also?
See the holes in the logic that you, as distributors, hang your hats on in order to cultivate an "us versus them" mentality to keep you motivated?
(Still addressing system distributors) Also, don't two of your criticisms contradict each other? You criticize "losers" who articulate any of the numerous holes in the psycho-babble you are fed but who DO NOT OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES TO AMWAY THE BRITT/YAGER WAY. To you, Charles lacks credibility because he isn't offering a Golden Parachute, another MLM scheme, or some other way for you to achieve your "dreams".
Now who's the lazy one looking for the handout here? Why, if someone's message has nothing in it for you, is that message invalid? Now, don't knee-jerk on me and spew something back from an FED speech during which a diamond rehashed his speech from Family Reunion three months prior whilst lining his pockets with your hard-earned money. Really THINK about it. That's the key. Use the brain God gave you and THINK about it. Your upline relies on you NOT thinking critically and their ability to do your thinking for you, via tapes, open meetings and "associating".
Remember Dexter Yager's famous quote--"THE FACTS DON'T COUNT". Have you been cautioned to avoid "analysis to paralysis"? To "stop trying to figure this thing out"? This is why your programmed knee-jerk reactions to criticism on these pages are all practically identical.
Do you honestly believe people who say "no" to or (God forbid) quit Amway are "choosing poverty"? I think I've gone on too long to fully address this fallacious statement right now. Please just realize, that as a low-grade commercial CULT, Britt's and other systems are using psychological manipulation on you ALL THE TIME. Believe me, I know. I explained away every sentence of Sidney's web site the first time I read it early last year. But what happened to my wife and I then is hapening to you now--someone is REDEFINING YOUR REALITY FOR YOU, WITH YOUR TACIT CONSENT. No, they'll never make you gas a Tokyo subway (at least I hope not), but this is a cult tactic to be certain. For example, did you want a HUM-V before you joined the system? Folks, they're UGLY. Did you really want to shelve most of your CDs so you could listen to a bad copy of "Oh Haaaaarrrrry..." over and over trying to find that "one little nugget" that will propel you to fame and fortune? Your reality and priorities have been redefined for you. You may even think you did it voluntarily. That's the beauty of large-group psychological manipulation.
In closing, let me offer you some truth: monetary wealth as an end in itself is a sin. It's that simple. You might counter, "but it's not about the money..." Please stop lying (another sin). At functions, speakers blare (unlicensed) recordings of "I Wanna be Rich..." Underlings "ooh" and "ahh" at the diamonds' slide shows displaying wads of $100 bills and lavish homes, cars, furs, and jewelry, all purchased with your money. This is motivation for you to spend more time and more money on the business. And it's not about the money, right? Folks, you're being misled by prosperity theology. It's NOT in the Bible, NOT ANYWHERE. God does not want or need your money to do his work. He's omnipotent, remember? Giving IS essential, but it is done for the benefit of the giver. God has absolutely no desire for you to be "hog-nasty" rich; you are not predestined to own a Hummer. It's in the Bible. After you're through twisting the meaning of Galatians 6:6-10, read the entire letter. Then read Paul's other letters, particularly Hebrews and 1 Timothy. Prosperity theology mirrors the biblical description of an apostasy, or false teaching. Bill Britt could be a poster child for the "false prophets" alluded to throughout the Bible.
I won't gloat at this point and give details of how mine and my wife's lives have gotten about 1000 percent better since we QUIT AMWAY, but suffice to say, our finances are in order, our spiritual and social priorities are back in balance, and our life is wonderful. Can Amway the Britt/Yager Way work for some? Yep, sure can. So stop using the "it works" argument. Of course it "works" great for those very, very, very small few making huge profits off the sale of tools and function tickets. Problem is, the new reality those small few program into your mind says that it's black-or-white: you succeed in Amway the Britt/Yager Way or you are a failure who "didn't have a big enough dream" or "wasn't willing to do what it takes". This keeps you "in" and it is a bald-faced lie. There's hope and freedom in abundance waiting for you outside your system...
It's funny, a part of me is angry about what Joe and I went through these last four years and what we have lost, and a part of me is just glad to be free of it. I am more angry at myself than anything else and am personally offended at people who claim that we are just "bitter failures."
I am angry at myself for allowing myself to be emotionally manipulated and financially swindled. I am not angry at Amway as a corporation, but at the top level distributors who made us believe we could make millions while we were losing thousands. I would, believe it or not, never put anyone down who still wanted to "do amway." I figure, they will learn their own lesson in time. It just irks me that these people are so mean spirited and think people like us shouldn't talk about our experiences in Amway. It's like years ago when young girl would get raped and everyone said "shhhh don't talk about it and it will go away." It doesn't go away, and if you don't at least let other people know what happened to you, how can they compare what is happening to them to reality? But again that just reminds me that Amway distributors are so brainwashed that they want to hide all sides but theirs so to keep their people from quitting.
I remember listening to a tape one day and one of the women said, "well, all the people I know who quit this business are divorced." When I heard that I was really scared. I thought that if we ever quit, Joe and I would get divorced....I also heard one that said "people always quit just before they would have made it." Talk about manipulation through fear. Well unfortunately it worked on us.
Sorry this is long. Thanks again for a great web site. Keep up the great work!
Just read through your volumes of literature on the Amway Opportunity it is nice to know that there are people out there like you who will never allow the plan to saturate the world. I have the impression that you are planning to hold down a regular job for the next 20 to 40 years hoping that you will retire at 2/3 of the income you can't live on now.
Needless to say at this point I am an Amway distributor and have been for several years. And it would be less than honest for me to say I'm making the kind of money that is shown in the plan yet. But it would also be less than honest to say I don't know anyone who has because I do. And they have done it in less time than the plan shows usually. They are rare! But no less rare than anyone making it in a "traditional" business.
Amway never said it was easy to make the big bucks it takes money to and time and effort to get ahead in any business .
Amways plan makes it more approachable for the not heavily backed person to do so. And that is all the Amway plan does it gives the average person an equal playing field with those heavily financially backed but you are going to work harder then you ever have for anything in your life,to get it.
This is why so many quit they want an easy soft free way to get ahead .
there are alot of scams offering just that and cleaning out bsankaccounts daily Amway is not one of those and I personally resent the implication that it is by either you or those shady people mis representing the plan for something it isn't.
thank-you for reading my coincern and do have a nice day.
Very cool site. I really liked it. It was imformative and very well presented. I will definetly come back to it again. I also like what your doing on the side going to hospitals and talking to heart patients before they go into surgery. Can I do that here, I live in Raleig,NC You also have all those site addresses I will definetly come back to them. I am a distributer I wish you were my sponsor we could change how the business is being presented today. (ETHICALLY AND HONEST). I have found that my sponser has lied to me. And I will confront him this weekend. You see I signed up in 1989 did little with the bus and moved away from where I used to live. I had just gotton out of the U.S.Army but didnt really know what was happening outside of army life. So I left my sponser And did some traveling for a few years. Moved back to the same area in 1996 and signed up again with the same sponser all I wanted was the litrature part of bus I read it in the old manuale. He decieved me it even saids it in the manuale I have now. He told me they changed it. You see I like the bus you do own it and you get out of it what you put in to it. But there really is alot of people in bus making false claims. I've heard the ones you have mentioned and more. That fela that responded to your page and has'nt responded sinceyou did in FEB I dont think he read your page thorouly I'm like you I think he e-mailed to all the othere sites. In my opinion you can be successful at any endevore you choose given the talents GOD gave to us all. And yes I do agree with ya OUR BRAINS. Well it's great talking to you. Hope you get my e-mail I'm a newcomer on the net. Just got new computer OH YEAh I almost for got to mentioned it is not purchased from my AMWAY catalog to expensive for me there. so I built it for under $500.00 Preaty neat huh I told my sponser he had a fit. hahahahlol He was thinking of his PV/BV And not really concern with the heart of the matter His people in bus with him. well I can go on and on you get the idea. Again great page hope to hear from you soon.
You have masterfully crusaded against a system that is based on the uplifting of other people.
I never questioned "what" the "system" accomplishes, only how it goes about doing it. For all the good you can point to, I can show you stories of people who went too far into debt, whose marriages were shattered, and who broke off relationships with family and friends, all because of the "business." The end never justifies the means!
Aren't there other 'evils' to fight. The porno industry preys on children and destroys their self esteem. Alcohol kills thousands a month. Smoking related illness kills thousands a day. Where are your web sites for these topics?
There are thousands of evils in the world. If I did web-sites on the three you mention -- what about the three the next distributor asks about etc. I wanted to do a web-site on the mis-leading and totally false facts and statistics that are used by distributors to convince people that Amway is the greatest business in the world. Thanks for calling it masterful!
What are you doing to save the next generation? Violence is at an all time high in our schools. Drug use is on the increase. Suicide is at one of its highest levels ever in our teenagers. Kids don't have a positive direction.
Nothing -- I have my own charities and ways of contributing postively to society. Just because they aren't Amway or on your top ten list doesn't make them less important.
I hope your sight does not steal the dream of someone who sees the Amway opportunity as their last hope to get out of debt and supporting their family. You should weigh the implications of your actions before stepping out.
Is the information I revealed false? If it is let me know and I'll change it. If it's true then people have a right to hear what distributors won't reveal.
There are two forces on this world, positive and negative. You had better figure out which one you are plugged into. Negative has been increasing long enough. Amway is Positive.
Are you implying that I'm aligned with Satan just because I researched some information? BWAHAHAHA! That's a first! How can facts and statistics be Negative? If Amway is so positive, why must deception and lies be used?
Can you document racism, sexism or persecution associated with Amway? Are distributors openly belittled and put down in-front of others? Are there open battles and cussing at the functions? Are women treated as sexual objects and coffee fetchers in Amway? Does Amway care about your family history? Does Amway care if you are fat or bald or toothless? Does Amway give preference to the Harvard Graduate over the Ex-Convict?
Would you allow an emerald homo-sexual couple give a seminar/rally?
Are people who decide Amway is not for them called names and put down? (maybe you don't but there are many people who can validate that this is widely done).
The system I belonged to taught that women were supposed to be sub-missive to their husbands. I think that being less than an equal in major decisions is far worse than being a coffee fetcher!
My point is Amway gives opportunity to everyone, not just a select group. The key point is opportunity. Can you show me another organization that offers equal opportunity for success, if the system is followed, to everyone?
You are right --everyone has an equal opportunity for success. It's just that most Amway distributors will not reveal the actual success statistics. If you're asked how many people go direct, do you tell them all that don't quit/100% of those that want to? Well, that sounds just great, but the fact of the matter is that, according to Amway's statistics in the SA-4400, only .8 of 1% of all distributors on record, QUALIFIED as direct distributors. I'm sure more have the pin.
I wish not to be adversarial, and I hope that you will take my comments to heart. You need not get involved in Amway but do realize that the system saves many people from the garbage heap of low self esteem each year and teaches them that they are winners, regardless of what people say about them or what social group they are a part of.
It's also a system that encourages people to go into debt buying tools and attending functions. Activities that line the pockets of directs and above with as much, if not more, money than is made from selling products.
It's also a system that dis-regards Amway's Code of Ethics in one way. The Retail Sales Rule. I'm sure that you encourage your downline to develop customers, but do you with-hold performance bonuses if they don't do 50 PV or sell to 10 customers every month? That's what the rules say. If you do that, great. But I have yet to find a distributor who actually enforces this rule.
Take Care PS Amway let me believe in myself again. Please respond with any comments you may have.
I believed in myself before Amway -- and still do after Amway!
I'm still trying to do this bus the right way. And yes I mean getting custemors and showing them the plan out of the SA-4400. I open it for them and show them the plan and discribe what is in it and I leave it with them so they can read it and decide if its somthing for them or not. I've been doing it like this for a few months now and the people that I talk to tell me that I was the only person that they have ever encouterd to show them the plan like this. They say everyone else has harrased them on the phone or out in the Mall. I will not call anyone unless they tell me to. No if ands buts about It. I believe its better this way. Straight to the point and honest with them up front. I also tell them about the books and tapes and how some can help but that people that sell these are profitting from them rather than profitting soley from the Amway bus.
Are you and your wife in any MLM now that is working for you. IF so let me know I visited my sponser and confronted him with the Litriature Pack about getting just that portion. Some of the people that have called me back have asked me about it and I tell them you can get the entire kit or just the lit pak. I told my sponser and he said you can't do that so I kept the words in my mouth and lo a behold a opened my compedium in front of him along with others in his group and showed him. And then asked him if he had ever read it. He escused himself and took me aside and said"You should'nt question your upline" Well I came back into the room with him, he did not answer my question so I said in front off everyone"Have any of you ever have a customer ask just for the Lit Pak portion of Kit". He (MY SPONSER) Just said that it was not part of the system to everyone there and continued on with his fine tunning as he so called it and still did not answer my question. So I butted in and asked him if he ever read the compendium in front of every one. I never got a response. So today when I get in from work there is a message on my voice mail explaining to me that what I was doing was not part of the system bla bla bla ... and also told me that springleadership tikets were on sale now. For $65.00 So I sent him a message back asking him why the tiket price was so high when last year we were paying $50.00 I asked him if someone was profitting from this and if so why? I told him the reason I got involved with Amway in the first place was to make money from the bus not have money taken away from me to fill someone elses pokets. I was not in Amway to make money off of the so called system they talk about. I have yet to hear from him but I feel that if this is what its all about my Amway days are numberd. Will have to look for another avenue.
I recently was almost "sucked in" to the amway system. A few weeks after I attended some house meetings and a few open meetings I received a package in the mail. The package contained numerous files that were downloaded from the internet.
I was and still am amazed at the wealth of information available to folks comtemplating beginning a new business. After spending several hours reading the material and then going online and spending a few more hours I came to a rational decision about the Amway business.
Thank you very much for the time I know you spent on your research, it cost me less time in mine. I'll find another way to reach my personal goals.
No wonder you are sour on the Amway business, being treated that way!
I have never experienced anything like that from any of my upline. It is Amway policy that once you reach the 15% level, you may be authorized to go on WOD. Check your current wholesale price list for details. I believe it is also in the Business Reference Manual (ABC).
When we had downline groups ordering through us, we NEVER asked for checks in advance. We never had any problems with downline paying us for their orders. Our distributors paid us at product pickup. we never had backorder problems., we always requested a voucher instead.
It sounds like the organization you were a part of needed to have some basic training sessions on ordering, pickup, checks, etc. We do it this way:
When a new distributor gets started, we offer to help them out personally for the first three weeks to place any product orders, to get them doing their ordering right.
When a group gets to a certain size, say 10 people, we have a potluck meeting on a weekend where the upline directs teach the basics of handling the business, paperwork, tool orders, etc.
Of course, now that everyone is on WOD, we have less need of this. Today, we don't even fill out SA-1 forms any more for products!
As always, the actions of distributors tar the entire business. Think of how people perceive car salesmen or lawyers. When you mention "car salesman" your friends roll their eyes and start telling their tale of woe with some slippery salesman. It would seem that ALL car salesmen are crooked when you talk to some people. And so it goes with Amway.
Hi, I always come back to the sites to reread or 1st read some of the sections I haven't read before. I just read your "buying from your own store" info. It was great. Four 3 years we weren't on WOD, we were still required to fill out the forms, and we had to pay for our orders in advance. So, we had to make two trips, one to drop off our order & one to pick it up. Or, we had to plan far enough in advance to be able to send it in the mail to our upline, but most times, we dropped it off. We were told that it would give us quality time with our uplines. Most times, we were running around trying to get stuff done and just dropped it off at the door or under the mat, there was no quality time! LOL
We were never allowed to call in our orders because our upline didn't want to get stuck with the orders if we didn't pick them up and they also wanted to be paid in advance. So if something was on back order, we had paid for it way in advance until we received it.
Also, in Jan of this year, Joe and I decided to tell our entire group (up & down) that we were taking a hiatus, we couldn't bring ourselves to tell them we were quitting because we didn't want to hear all the bologna they were going to give us. Anyway, about 2weeks before that, we had called our upline direct to see if we could get one of our longer distance distributors on WOD. We were told that they would have to check upline since he wasn't profit sharing yet, he didn't have the power. Since they weren't talking to their upline (our pearls), they had to call our Diamond Direct, who then said it was up to our pearls. What a run around!!!! Finally I told my downline guy, just call our direct and place your orders directly through him, we are taking time off from this. Boy, was our upline pissed. He felt he could jerk us around, but then when we played hard ball and said "fine, you do it!" He wasn't too happy. Oh, well.
I am presently involved in a divorce. I personally hold the local Amway people responsible as a factor in the divorce. All to many time our resources where directed to "tools", meetings and products rather than our family.If I could sue for alination of effection an damages I would do it. I find almost all the "negitive information" to true. Oh yes some day you may be rich but you going to have to sell your soul to do it. I have read the "Rino" books, if you follow this line of thought it is fare from being Crist like.
Dont do this people and then call them friend.
This so called buisness is a cult.My husband joined and after 3 months we are out! Our so called up-line told us not to watch t.v. and not read the newspapers. And they got mad if i bought any other products that were not amway. These people husband and wife work 9 to 5 everyday then come home and sit at Mc donalds or the mall and try to get people to do something they don't want to do.And they lie on top of it all,you know they can't mention amway when talking to prospects. If the business is so damn good why do you have to lie? These people are young, and they are wasting there life they say they are sacrificing for the business what a joke!!! They say when they are diamond then they will do things together geez what morons! They could die tomorrow and still be sitting at Mc donalds. Still waiting to do things like read a good book (not the brainwashing amway stuff) listen to good music(not the stupid amway tapes) watch television,spend time with their children instead of those god awful meetings every nite, and just enjoy life without having to always stalk people everywhere they go making complete fools of themselves in the process. They will probably still be prospecting when they are buried,such obsession. I think the whole organization is phoney and so are the people in it!! I want to make a honest living i don't enjoy lieing to people like the amway people do. And i think the so called diamonds have other income coming in I don't believe scamway is responsible totally. Wake up people do you enjoy lieing to everyone? I sure don't.I can't wait till one of you approaches me.HA HA! Well good luck if you are in it but as for me i am going to enjoy my life without the stress of having to prospect (please there are no mines around here)I am free thank god i am free. A happy wife
I wrote Amway's Business Conduct and Rules division the first of February about a Direct Distributor defrauding me and those I sponsored selling us BSM'S we all thought were from Amway. As it turns out we signed a conract with a company call Pronet thinking it was a receipt for signing up as a distributor. When a couple I sponsored ask them to buy back their unused BSM's they refused and wouldn't explain to me why not. So I wrote to the only other upline person I knew. They live in Florida. They told me if I didn't like the way things were and didn't want to pay out to them $75 to $100 a month, etc. I was free to find someone else to help me with my business. But, if I expected any help from Amway, I was in for a big surprise. So I wrote them and they are checking to see what these two upline Directs have to say about my "contentions." I sure wish I'd spotted your information six months ago.
So much for that,