Subj: making room for the new Date: 96-06-22 16:14:18 EDT From: Soloflyr11 i was thinking of my friend today. saw a picture of her. she was a close friend i thought. til we both went to see gurumayi in december. she was very angry at me for speaking honestly about how siddha yoga was no longer for me and how i felt happy to be resolved that i was finished. i said that to her and to the friends that she had brought to introduce to gurumayi. later that week she told me that i had "ruined" it for her and her friends. i said that i was sorry i had ruined it but that i wasn't sorry that i said what i had said because it was the truth. she then went on to tell me all the things she didn't like about me and then she said that it was my fault that she hadn't been more involved in siddha yoga for several years because she listened to all of my negativity etc. etc. she would not stop dumping on me, though i asked her to please stop at least three times. maybe four ; ) and then i began saying that i would have to hang up if she didn't stop. which is what i finally had to do. we haven't talked since. we were pretty good friends once upon a time..... and as i see her picture today, i feel sad for all this.... (sorry if this is a repeat story, it just came up for me just now and i thought of sharing it. maybe i have before?? oh well...) out here flying, solo Subj: The Person Date: 96-06-22 18:31:41 EDT From: BVena I've been thinking today about Chidvilasananda, the individual. What must go through her head as she watches people report on her various crimes and other goings on? We already know person(s) have been expelled from the ashram for posting about (maybe even in support of) her in these SYDA folders. Thank you Sarah. Even mild criticism or even questions can be tolerated...concerning herself or any of her currant or past tense minions. Also, after reading about the phone taps I was once again chastened to my feelings about the whole organization. But what of her personally? It is apparent that she lives in a delusional state somewhere between fashion and reality. I personally have seen her destroy one of her swamis for worshiping a deity other than herself. Can she really believe her own hype? Or could the whole currant SYDA trip be a farce carried out in Muktananda's name? Ideas/ opinions? I suppose this line of questioning cropped up out of the notion that I had judged her too harshly considering the circumstances of her upbringing. Then again, NOT! Afternoon.. Beau Subj: Re:secrets Date: 96-06-23 17:53:35 EDT From: Blue62713 Dear all, ok, secrets. A friend of mine worked in the sewing room where they make GM's clothes, etc. Years ago in Ganeshpuri on the day she was to take her vows, wear white, shave her head, and so on, it was my friend's responsibility to make and deliver GM's white robe for the day. She had stayed up all night finishing the garment. She waited at the appointed place for GM so that she could deliver it and make any last minute alterations, but GM never came. Using her logical thinking she went up into the garden to what was at the time George Afif's bungalow. It was very early in the morning. There she found Gurumayi, and it was evident that the two had spent the night together. Now that's what i call responsible behavior the night before you are to take sanyas! Subj: Re:secrets Date: 96-06-24 00:03:56 EDT From: Larryom Blue, I gotta say that sounds like a world class Hollywood story. But how could your friend be so sure they'd "spent the night together"? I mean "early in the morning" is a very relative term in a place where people make a habit of getting up at 3:00 AM to meditate! Now in a way, I'd really LIKE to just believe that story--its just so blatant and satisfying in a visceral way--but I just don't know what, short of actually "catching them in the act" could've proven what they'd been doing the night before. . . Subj: family 1 of 2 Date: 96-06-24 05:49:46 EDT From: Dissent222 Part 1 of 2 I've been having some thoughts about my syda years lately; not new, necessarily, but more clear in my mind. I feel more clear and certain about my conclusions 2 years after leaving than ever. Here's a piece of it: First, Syda (Siddha Yoga) is an organization that serves, above all else, the needs of a few personalities (namely, Muktananda, Gurumayi, George Afif) who opportunistically decided that they could best fulfill their ambitions for power, control and wealth by selling "spirituality" to rich, hungry westerners. This is the reason SYDA exists, although many people believe it exists for the good of mankind. It does not, because it does not serve mankind. Ultimately, It only serves its leaders. Second, many seekers, like myself, felt alienated in a variety of ways for various reasons, and were vulnerable to the seductive lure of syda's false advertising. For example, We couldn't claim and own our own talents and abilities without feeling guilty, unworthy, "not enough" - so we wanted to give up on our talents, end the frustration, and simply serve Gurumayi, in hopes that she would guarantee our worth to us; or we couldn't feel loved, or feel that the love we had to give was wanted - so we believed that the guru would love us unconditionally, as long as we loved her unconditionally and above all else. And we believed that that would take the pain away; or we were numb from trying not to feel old pain, and wanted to feel acceptable feelings that would help us feel more alive, rather than deal with the conflict and pain of the "unacceptable" feelings. At some point, our struggle, pain, uncertainty, confusion, and inability to control life felt like too much to bear. SYDA offered a magical, miraculous way out. Give up attachment, ego, doership, pride - and surrender to the master, install the perfected one inside yourself - - kill your real, sloppy, human self, in other words, and superimpose on that old thing the illusion of the divine, perfect self of the guru. This is a tragic mistake, to denigrate the human self, to attempt to transcend (i.e., discard) it, and put on a ready-made divine self offered by a person who is a fraud. An example of this tragic error follows in part 2. See part 2 Subj: family 2 of 2 Date: 96-06-24 05:50:19 EDT From: Dissent222 Part 2 of 2 I have just spoken to a woman whose daughter is in the Syda ashram in So. Fallsburg. The daughter refuses to visit home, although there are compelling reasons involving family matters for her to do so. The mother has spent years trying to work out what went wrong, trying to understand and acknowledge how she failed her daughter and contributed to her daughter's alienation from her family. Now, althought this daughter is seriously ill and not getting sufficient treatment in the ashram, and although a family member she once loved is dying, this young woman will not agree to go home and spend some time with her family, and be given medical treatment. This woman thinks, I suppose, that Gurumayi is all she needs, that nobody loves her like Gurumayi does, that the people she once loved who love her still simply do not matter - that she is transcending and operating on a higher level, and all that matters is worshipping her guru. This is tragic in my opinion. It's the kind of loyalty that Guruamyi demands from those who want to be real disciples - but the only one who profits is Gurumayi. This young woman will go on being ill and more and more lost to her family, and her mother and family will go on being tortured with pain and anxiety that they cannot help her. I never really knew how many parents are tortured by their children's participation in Syda and similar groups - how the group interrupts and alienates participants from the normal human processes of maturing, relating, communicating, working out and resolving conflicts. And how, if we were troubled in our family relationships, SYDA allows us to sidestep all the pain involved in working through the conflicts. Instead, syda gives us two choices: we can act nice to our families and avoid anything real, (magic healing with no real communication or understanding) or we can cut ourselves off and leave them to their karma. The real process of maturing - establishing a firm adult identity and coming to terms with unfinished family business - can never happen in Syda. Look at Gurumayi's relationship to her parents. What does she know about maturity? Obviously, nothing. Are we supposed to learn from HER??? I know a man whose mother committed suicide, and because he was on staff, he asked GM permission to go to the funeral. When he didn't hear from GM, he waited, planning not to go. Then she finally got around to noticing him and was enraged that he hadn't gone. And yet, another man, whose mother was dying, did just leave without waiting for GM's permission, although he faxed the info and waited almost a whole day without getting an answer. And when he returned, he was told by his dep't. head, one of GM's closest staff members, "you didn't have the faith or the loyalty to wait for GM's answer." But back to the first case: Gurumayi, you should really be ashamed of yourself for causing so much pain to this devotee's mother, and for so misleading this devotee into believing that she is gaining anything by staying in the ashram, in spite of her illness and the pain she has caused her family. Gurumayi, you should be ashamed, but you have no shame. You don't care about anyone but yourself. Subj: some old notes 1/2 Date: 96-06-24 10:59:35 EDT From: Fibonacci8 I recently found some things I wrote last year when I finally realized that the SY experience was over for me. I added some things and decided to post them. I was thinking about narcicism in SY and some other things.... The narcicism that pervades SY is nothing new. Our whole culture is narcicistic. You see it everywhere in people's attitudes, their politics (or lack of politics), their stance towards life. SY narcicism is to a large extent a reflection of the narcicism in society. In SY it is amplified. Is this SY narcicism spiritual? Narcicism itself isn't spiritual, but there is a spiritual focus in SY, certainly for casual visitors to the ashram. This spirituality gets corrupted and distorted beyond recognition as a devotee moves toward the inner circles of SY, but for the unwitting seeker, spirituality is present there and some spiritual growth does occur. So maybe SY puts narcicism to good use, at least for a limited period of inner discovery. But before long it leads into psychological and moral quicksand. The problem with the SY philosophy is its private and totally internal notion of fulfillment and self. Though many people are critical of SY, there has been little criticism of these notions, despite the fact that they are contrary to our experience of life. There is a pure inner awareness we can experience. There are inner spaces we can explore, inner lights we can see, etc. But mature happiness or human fulfillment do not belong to that inner space alone. The inner awareness is real but it is has no meaning without our connection to other people and the world. SY style spiritual narcicism leads devotees to imagine a dreamlike state of enlightenment, in denial of the existence of the world, entirely internal, disconnected from other people, and yet full of happiness and personal power. It is a fantasy. And it sets the stage for relationships without ethics, authority without accountability. It leads inevitably to personal grandiosity and abuse of power. We should reject this view of spirituality and the self. Gurumayi's failure can be seen as nothing special, merely a reflection of the overall moral failure of our culture. So why should I be angry at her? Well, here's why: She caters to the sickness in our culture which the devotees bring with them, rather than rising above it. SY is a reflection our own sick culture, as well as the dysfunctional relationship she had with her own unethical guru. But to say this is to rationalize something which doesn't deserve rationalization. It is pandering to say, "Well the world is this way, of course the path is this way too." There is a higher standard, and she has not been able to find it. It was very upsetting when I began to see how much narcicism there was in SY. Then I began to say to myself that this wasn't my path. My inner voice laughed: "You're kidding, really!?" As if I ever could have fit into SY in any real way, given the values I was raised with and the ethical principles I believe in. Upon coming to my senses it became obvious that SY could never be the path for me. So, where do I go from here? Clearly there are people out there who understood all these things long ago. Some of them have written books that I've been lucky enough to find. So now there's no guru, no spiritual authority, no answer man. I have to make my own way. This means I have to find my own courage, and I have to look to the world around me instead of rejecting it. It is no longer believable that spirituality and the self are wholy internal and isolated from others. Subj: some old notes 2/2 Date: 96-06-24 11:01:50 EDT From: Fibonacci8 What a relief to realize how dysfunctional the SY thing is. How wonderful not to be able to fit into it. In leaving SY something has been lost -- a sense of belonging and security, pathetic as they were in that setting. And what's left in place of what I once considered my path? For me it seems to be my own simple path of not knowing; of being honest, of wondering, of looking around and thinking, of learning what I can, and still having the courage not to know what I really don't know. This is the opposite of what SY offers us -- to "know" what we really don't know, to be totally narcicistic in the name of spirituality, to close ourselves to the world, and to cease wondering. Thank God I'm out of SY, but still it's all very sad. In a way SY mirrored and amplified the shallowness and narcicism of our culture and allowed us to lose ourselves in these things. Eventually we came to our senses, our ethics, our characters, our selves -- who we really are, as opposed to a mystical fantasy of some grandiose self. In leaving SY we also walked away from some of the dysfunctional qualities of our culture which SY represented in a magnified way. In this sense we also been able to grow beyond some of the failures of our own culture which we might not have done without the SY experience. It is sad to look at the psychological dependence that the devotees have on GM, and it's easy to blame her for allowing it and encouraging it. And yet she herself was dependent on her guru in the same way. She never grew up beyond that point. When her guru died, she transferred that dependence onto George. When George got booted from the public life of the ashram, she became dependent on Catherine Parrish. Gurumayi allows people to be inappropriately dependent on her because that is all she knows herself. We can be angry at her for how she behaves, but we can hardly expect more of her. It's sad, but also illuminating and freeing to look at all this. It's so reassuring to look back and see how far I've come, having been lost in SY without a clue for years. So many people have gone through this amazing process of leaving SY. For most of us it has probably been a journey of self discovery and growth -- first getting lost in the madness of SY and then figuring it out and leaving. And there are so many other spiritual trips like SY where people have gone through the same thing. What a big step it is to stop believing in the idiotic view of life and spirituality which SY represents. To leave SY is to stop hiding from life in the name of spirituality. Among other things, I came to SY for inner growth. In the beginning, I never would have guessed that I would find those things when I left SY. In retrospect though, it's hardly surprising. Subj: FAQ about Siddha Yoga, part 1 Date: 96-07-04 08:23:03 EDT From: Howie Sm Q. People say SYDA has changed, and that we need no longer worry about the scandals and allegations. A. Especially beginning with Baba's death in 1982, SYDA's propaganda has incorporated elements designed to separate out those who worship Gurumayi from those who don't. (Gurumayi, aka Malti Shetty, Swami Chidvilasananda.) These purging devices have the aim of repelling those who aren't "into" Gurumayi, and of securing the desired market segment: viz., manageable, sheep-like people. When all diversity of outlook is purged, it creates the effect of things being "changed," and straightened out. But this unified outlook is not the peacefulness of spiritual repose and "purity"--it is the rigor mortis of the spiritually cadaverous. Q. Given all the controversy, do you think the end of SYDA is in sight? A. My guess is that SYDA will not topple in the foreseeable future. Their leader already is visibly deranged, but people seem not to care. When people are force-fed, through Amway-like presentations, how to STOP THINKING ABOUT AND TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR LIFE, they typically experience a tremendous feeling of relief. They are brainwashed into believing this lobotomy-style relief is the "touch of God." American history suggests there will always be consumers lining up to purchase this addictive God-buzz. Obviously, to not think about life is to set oneself up for crash-and-burn scenarios at worst, and a pod-person existence at best. Q. SYDA disciples are unwilling to listen or discuss anything except how perfect their religion is. How did they become like this? The way I see it, a big part of SYDA is to silence people. To voice what one feels and thinks is the highest heresy. SYDA teaches us that our personalities and identities are nothing more than a bunch of samskaric crud, that some roto-rooter tooth fairy is going to flush out. Here's where it gets ridiculous: out of gratitude supposedly, we are to pledge every resource we have and all of our attention to this tooth fairy person. And we are to smother our identities as best we can at all times. Here's where it really gets ridiculous: SYDAites claim this is traditional Hinduism. People in SYDA internalize these attitudes, and so slam the doors on anyone who isn't repeating or paraphrasing SYDA's "party line." What can one do in such circumstances! All we can do is be ready to listen to our SYDA acquaintances, in the event they do want to talk at some point. The situation is far from perfect. Subj: The Nityananda scandal 1/5 Date: 96-07-04 09:05:16 EDT From: Howie Sm PART 1 OF 5 Dear AOL readers, What follows in this five-part message is a discussion of statements made by the head of Siddha Yoga (SYDA), whose followers believe is a perfect being. In SYDA, many worshipped Swami Nityananda as the authorized successor to the Siddha Yoga lineage of Swami Muktananda. In a blizzard of scandal, and a blizzard of alleged shady actions by the SYDA Foundation, he was ousted. To console those who formerly worshipped the now discredited Nityananda, Gurumayi (his biological sister and the present leader of SYDA) publicly made the following statements, that I have cited below after the captions "MIND CONTROL EXAMPLES." These statements are good examples of the language of mind control. Before reading, picture the scene: a mob of disciples are listening, who are crushed by the realization that the SYDA fairy tale is hopelessly tainted, and that one of their gurus who they worshipped so devoutly is a fraud. They have been instructed to, at the drop of a hat, regard Swami Nityananda in the worst possible light--the person they were formerly vigilantly worshipping! SEE PART 2 Subj: The Nityananda scandal 2/5 Date: 96-07-04 09:06:12 EDT From: Howie Sm PART 2 MIND CONTROL EXAMPLE #1<<>> ANALYSIS OF THE UNDERLYING MIND CONTROL: "The world is a projection of the ego. Having unpleasant sensations about the SYDA scandal means you are defective, for you are projecting your impure ego onto a blissful reality. I want to squelch your feelings by laying an impurity trip on you. That way you will focus on your own inherent defectiveness instead of on the baldfaced SYDA scandal. This way I can sucker you suckers, second time round." COMMON SENSE: People who seriously worshipped this guy as their guru would obviously experience sadness, and have concerns, doubts, and issues. To NOT experience these things would indicate they were made of stone, brainless, or insane. Her statement (mind control example #1) is inhuman nonsense. SEE PART 3 Subj: The Nityananda scandal 3/5 Date: 96-07-04 09:06:52 EDT From: Howie Sm PART 3 MIND CONTROL EXAMPLE #2<<>> ANALYSIS OF THE UNDERLYING MIND CONTROL: "I, Gurumayi have clean hands, and have nothing to do with this horrid scandalous mess. Baba did it! But since he is a God (i.e., dead), he is sufficiently vague as to be a suitable inverted fall-guy for this whole mess. Anything bad you might feel (though you shouldn't feel bad) is PROOF-POSITIVE that Baba and SYDA are a GOOD THING. We predicted all this unpleasantness, and so the scandal proves we are magic, spiritual, and grand. Everything is okay, folks. Everything you are going through was prefigured in the grand SYDA plan, folks. Just like an Amway script, we've seen to everything. Just enjoy the ride (suckers!)." COMMON SENSE: Baba didn't have a clue that Nityananda was going to be ousted in a fireball of scandal. Baba didn't know that the brother and sister successors would begin a Hatfield/McCoy family feud on a nuclear scale. Who on earth would ever swallow the line that the Nityananda scandal is "a good thing to be sad about" except the totally brainwashed? SEE PART 4 Subj: The Nityananda scandal 4/5 Date: 96-07-04 09:07:20 EDT From: Howie Sm PART 4 MIND CONTROL EXAMPLE #3<<>> There it is! The passive-aggressive put-down formula! We hear plenty of them from SYDA supporters and exs alike. If I had a nickel for every time I saw a patronizing statement like this online in these AOL forums, I'd be able to buy out Donald Trump! These statements proliferate like cockroaches amongst SYDAites, both active and exs. SEE PART 5 Subj: The Nityananda scandal 5/5 Date: 96-07-04 09:07:47 EDT From: Howie Sm PART 5 MIND CONTROL EXAMPLE #4<<>> Keep in mind that she is saying this at the same ceremony in which her biological brother, the successor to the SYDA empire, is being tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail! OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK ABOUT THE SCANDAL THAT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES! She's suggesting that they think about something else--"some good thing." This request is hopelessly unnatural. She's saying "Don't you dare think about this ugly sordid thing that is right in front of your eyes. Don't you dare think about the destruction of the basic tenets of your spiritual identity!" Why? If people think about it, they'll realize they are being suckered. This is crude and obvious mind control. Subj: Re:The Nityananda scandal 2/ Date: 96-07-04 16:13:28 EDT From: NaradaP MIND CONTROL EXAMPLE #1<<>> This is a perfect example of the diversionary tactics used by SYDA. The object is to divert the attention from the issues to the personalities of those who are disturbed by the issues, as if they were the ones responsible for the issues in the first place. This tactic works because those who persist in questioning the issues are quickly shown the door. Since the social life of SYDA is the primary reason for so many people sticking around, this is a very powerful threat used in keeping SYDAites in line. Yet the relationship among SYDAites are all on the 'fair weather friends' level. They are all willing to turn against who ever the Guru points at or they will be next out the door. If SYDA can do it to Nityananda, they can to it to anybody. Narada Subj: apologetics Date: 96-07-05 03:37:54 EDT From: PERDUCO Dear HowieSm, In regards to whether SY will collapse in the future you say, <> I totally agree. More than "not caring", however, is the devotees willingness to reinterpret every act by gurumaya in the most positive light giving creedence to their assumption of her divinity. A SY acquaintance and myself once watched 1995's new year video message in which GM is clearly acting like a loony toons fake staged character. In the end I turned to him with my usual poker face when he turned to me to say, "it's amazing how she can test our ego by acting that way in a video." The ultimate apologetic, eternally forgiving, forever loyal..... By the way, your analysis in the above posts is right on point as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. Caritas, Perduco. 
Subj:  SYDA's labor practices
Date:  96-07-09 16:46:47 EDT
From:  Howie Sm        

Dear AOL readers,

Isn't there anyone out there who feels that SYDA's labor practices are
exploitative?  Would former SYDA staff members reading this message
please come forward and tell the specifics of how labor is handled in
SYDA online, so as to flesh out the picture?

Even questionable TV evangelists pay competitive wages to their staff.
After all, it is the staff who assembles the show which draws in the
millions of dollars.  SYDA's show draws in the millions of dollars,
yet it appears the staff is treated as a "volunteer" non-waged work
force.  People work for and reside at SYDA for years as "volunteers."
This is not right.

SYDA Dakshina (donation) cards these days allow you to have automatic
deductions made from your bank/credit card.  This shows one way in
which SYDA is very savvy and up to date about the money side of their
operation.  SYDA is very down-to-earth about money when it comes to
them receiving it.  But when it comes to paying it out and taking care
of their full-time work force, SYDA policy floats in the mystical
beyond, is shrouded in platitudes about gratitude and unseen
blessings, and is generally smothered in metaphysics.  All the
philosophizing seems to be a smokescreen for substandard wages and
conditions.  This is not right.

It is wearisome to see people online reduce all ethical issues to the
metaphysical question of whether the "world is as you see it" or not,
or whether one "trusts their experiences" or not.  It is these people
who are squarely to blame for the ongoing labor exploitation.
Clearly, if the thousands of people who patronize SYDA disapproved of
the exploitation of workers, things would be made right.  A con can
only work with accomplices, and in this case it is the disciples who
are the accomplices.  They don't call for change, because they are
brainwashed into seeing everything in inappropriate metaphysical
terms.

The American public screamed about housekeepers not being paid social
security in recent politics, as if it were the worst criminal act.
Workers that receive less than the minimum wage are considered tragic
martyrs, in general.  Why a different standard for the people who lose
years of their lives to SYDA?

For less mature people seized in the excitement of their first
thoughts about spirituality--people of age 15, or 20, or 25
perhaps--turning a blind eye to the ethical realities of a religious
group is perhaps understandable.  But we see online people who have
been "into spirituality" for dozens of years--who are in their 30s,
40s, 50s, and 60s--who seem incapable of breaking out of their
accomplice, apologist perspective.  Patrons of SYDA, present and
former, should own up to the responsibility of saying "enough is
enough."  The honeymoon is over, you are not just starting your
spiritual voyage--it is time to call a spade a spade.  There is far
too much babyish spiritual babbling coming out of full-grown adults
around here.  It is grossly embarrassing, and gives Hinduism a bad
name.

Whether or not SYDA was a learning experience for some is absolutely
beside the point when adjudicating the simple question of whether or
not their labor practices are exploitative.

Subj:  Re:SYDA's labor practices
Date:  96-07-09 18:32:42 EDT
From:  Larryom         

Hi again Howie.

I tend to think you're right when it comes to SYDA's being unfair in
not paying their full-time staff people more than they do... Trouble
is it's only the workers themselves who could demand "better working
conditions," and for the most part those still doing the staff work
are satisfied at the time that they are being spiritually compensated.
In retrospect it's up to each one to decide whether or not they were.
In fact, if SYDA used a larger portion of their millions for truly
charitable works I would probably be less bothered by the imbalances
myself.  But I know how some people were overworked over the long haul
of a long residency and I AGREE with you on that one.

As it is, the only exception I ever personally took to a particular
seva was when I was asked to camoflague or "antique" those new
trailers for duty-free (illegal) export to India.  As far as my other
sevas went, I really WAS a happy _volunteer_ and saw myself as such,
whether I was cleaning toilets, chopping veggies, hauling mattresses
for 10,000 Indian devotees, washing dishes after meals for hours, or
supervising the dining room clean up, etc., etc. I enjoyed the work
and the comraderie, And I DID derive personal benefit out of it--I
came home happy and fit, losing weight with no complaints, and with a
truly generous attitude of service in general.  I also never stayed
for more than 2-3 months at a time. For me, seva was seva and I never
felt exploited by the hours themselves--only by an unethical seva
request.

The fly in the ointment of your argument is that the workers
themselves must be the ones who believe that they are working under
unfair conditions.  IF there are enough EX-SY people to lodge legal or
formal complaints against SYDA's labor practices, fine.  But for
myself, if I am at all representative, I really did enjoy my seva and
look back on those days with fondness. Those who did not and do not
should speak up.

Subj:  Re:SYDA's labor practices
Date:  96-07-09 22:01:39 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914      

It should also be pointed out that different people get different
"deals" in SF.  Some are given no spending money at all, just room and
board.  Others get something akin to a salary.  I know because I was
asked to be on staff and was told "financial arrangements could be
made," whatever that means (I never pursued it).  I have friends who
stayed for a year or more and survived strictly out of the generosity
of their parents, or on savings.  I suspect there are a lot of
trust-fund types doing long-term, fulltime seva.  Am I right?

Subj:  exploiting sevites
Date:  96-07-10 08:16:47 EDT
From:  Blue62713       

Dear All, In response to Howie's post about exploiting sevites: When I
was a devotee who came for short periods of time I was fulfilled by my
seva. It was easy to be excited about staying up late at night to
finish projects. When I became a staff member I still felt that, but
less frequently. I worked much harder on staff, functioned on very
little sleep, and had such limited free time that I preferred sleep to
meditation. I do believe my labor was expoited.  There was a saying I
recall, "Kids at the ashram get sick because they want attention, &
adults at the ashram get sick because they need to rest." I did find
that was true for me. At times I almost wished I could come down with
some bug so that I could spend a quiet day reading and recouperating:
and that it would be karmically OK.  We did have Sundays "off", but
that was only during quiet periods when no large programs were being
held. It wasn't enough, and god forbid you choose to go to a movie in
your free time . . . !  shocking.

Subj: part 2; exploiting sevites 
Date: 96-07-10 09:41:38 EDT 
From: Blue62713

Part 2 - exploiting sevites

Perhaps this is old news to most who read this board, but Howie, I did
want to respond to your post. Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

Some staff members cover their own expenses. These are the folks with
savings, generous families, and/or trust funds. Other staff members
are paid, particularly those with a "marketable" skill such as the
video staff members. Staff also get provided for with material goods
such as clothes (after all a fairly extensive wardrobe is an essential
for worshiping the inner self).  There is a health insurance policy
set up for staff members. David Kempton was talking with a friend of
mine about the policy a while back and said, "Think of it as a monthly
donation to God. Thanking him for keeping you healthy."  The health
insurance policy is an aspect of being on staff which is fair and
important. If a person is receiving a check from syda every week, is
health insurance required by law? How would they distinguish between
full and part time people?
 I had wonderful times doing seva and I had horrific times doing
 seva. More than once I experienced public humiliation directly from
 Gurumayi for not performing in the way she envisioned. Once she
 grabbed my arm and shook me in front of many onlookers. Still I
 persevered motivated by my desire to become more spiritually evolved.
It's a brilliant scheme, really. Tell people that in order to evolve
spiritually they have to do seva.  Then you have a workforce of fevent
zealous hopeful seekers. An ideal fuel for institution-wide energetic
dedication.  This undercurrent of spiritual exploitation is a potent
area for discussion. It is the first step in taking power over others
for the organization's gain. It _works_ , and works well to use gifted
motivated people to help package the product called "Self-Realization"
(available for a small price). Surely a case based on spiritual
exploitation would not stand up well in court, but that does not
discount its relevence. Especially in regard to healing and moving on
from siddha yoga.


Subj:  Re:part 2; exploiting sevites
Date:  96-07-10 18:58:09 EDT
From:  Howie Sm        

Dear Blue,

You say

<<>>

I want to thank you for posting, and I want to say that you are not
stating the obvious or old news.  I was curious what others thought on
this issue and appreciated your message.  I am not so interested in
getting into whether or not SYDA's labor practices are illegal, and
how to sue them, and all that.  I just wanted to get a sense if
people, in their hearts or consciences, felt that something was
haywire in the way sevites were treated in the ashram.  Your message
handled that issue with subtlety.  I hope you say more on it.

I understand the context of your message.  It is always tiresome to
hear the "THAT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE" dead horse beaten yet again.
Such responses would indeed earn a chocolate from Gurumayi.  I can't
help but see a covert self-congratulatory component in that line.  The
underlying thought goes thusly: "I didn't step into it, like (not so
savvy) others did.  Good for clever me, too bad for those other saps."

I was never exploited by SYDA seva, but that doesn't disqualify me
from noticing how friends of mine have been treated.  To think that
"THAT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE" has the status of a final argument is to
be ethics-blind, in my opinion.

My guess is, most people upon leaving SYDA just want to move on and
not dwell on how to pursue legal remedies for things they didn't like
about their SYDA experience.  Many are probably not in a psychological
or financial position to pursue legal remedies.  This failure of exs
to make federal cases is seized upon by SYDA apologists.  Apologists
reason "If they don't speak up, well what d'ya expect?"  Or worse:
"Exs don't prosecute because there's nothing wrong with SYDA for them
to speak about, and inside they are still doing sadhana even if their
egos are acting up on the outside."

How exs might get revenge, or "results" is not on my mind.  I'm merely
interested in hearing here what others have to think about these
issues, since there are few places on the planet Earth where open
public discussions about SYDA are possible.  Even brainwashed
responses online are appreciated, so that the bizarreries of
SYDA-thought might come out into the light for others to evaluate and
shudder at.

But especially appreciated are sensitive responses such as yours, that
are imbibed with a spirit of openness.  It redeems my faith, a little
bit, in the possibility of an intelligent dialogue in these message
board areas--the presence of disturbed individuals notwithstanding.

Subj:  Re:part 2; exploiting sevite
Date:  96-07-10 21:33:54 EDT
From:  Larryom         

>>I was never exploited by SYDA seva, but that doesn't disqualify me
from noticing how friends of mine have been treated<<

That was precisely what I DID say, Howie.  I DO think SYDA is guilty
of exploiting workers and I genuinely do hope that there is some
action taken by the long-time overworked staffers.  I agreed with you
AND said that I had to disqualify myself from direct protest because
of my personal seva having been short-term.  I know of some VERY dear
souls who were BADLY exploited by SYDA's guilt trips and I absolutely
DO fault SYDA for this. A real day of rest is a Western concept that
always felt right to me. It always bothered me that SY didn't have at
least a "rotating" sabbath.

Subj:  Aw jeez, Larry
Date:  96-07-10 22:19:02 EDT
From:  Bob1258487

Larry, I appreciate the fact that you feel you can't say anything derogatory
about SYDA that does not come out of your own experience.  However, sometimes
adhering to that policy too rigorously makes you sound like an apologist for
SYDA.  "I didn't have a bad experience (I lost a couple of pounds and had a
good time), so I really can't say anything bad about it, even though the
emotionally and spiritually scarred fill the message board around me. "

I guess I have trouble figuring out what keeps you posting - would you go
onto a battered wives message board and post "well, I shook OJ's hand and
talked to him briefly, and he seemed OK by me?"  I appreciated the call to
action at the end of your post, but it was negated by the pleasant memories
you related first. It is obvious you miss SYDA - perhaps it was the only good
time in your life.  Start thinking about creating something good on your own.
SYDA was easy - they dropped a prepackaged "good time" in your lap.  It's a
little harder to do it on your own.

It's good to be grateful for good experiences, but it's also good to know
when you need to forget about them in order to develop. So you don't live in
the past.

Subj:  How the feds view Slava
Date:  96-07-10 22:20:16 EDT
From:  Bob1258487

Regarding the discussion about sevites, a casual search of the web revealed
the following (taken from a legal handbook on nonprofit corporations):

<>I was never exploited by SYDA seva, but that doesn't disqualify me from
noticing how friends of mine have been treated<<

This is right on the money, Howie, and exactly what I was thinking.  As the
weeks go by and I learn more and more about the direct experiences of a
diversity of people in SYDA, I am just more and more appalled.  Some of the
abusive things described by others did happen to me  -  many of them did not.
However, so long as one abusive thing happened to anyone else, it is my
responsibility to acknowledge it and support the person in their expression
of anger about it.  If any kind of abuse happens to any one, I do not need to
have direct personal experience of it to recognize it as abuse.  Even one
other person’s experience of abuse in SYDA is enough to require me to examine
it and to leave the organization behind in protest.  In this situation there
are hundreds if not thousands of people who have been abused to some degree
-  therefore I am OUT.

I have always thought that the way seva operates in SYDA is very rough.  I
thought this even while I was still in SYDA.  I was never on staff but I felt
that the seva I did and saw others do when I was at the various ashrams was
exhausting, ill making and often absurd.  I think this was also true at the
center I was heavily involved in.

At the various ashrams I always had sevas that had no time boundaries
associated with them.  This meant that I worked and/or was on call pretty
much 24 hours a day seven days a week.  I found this exhausting.  Add to this
the sleep deprivation that is simply a part of life in an ashram and you have
a sick making situation.  I always got several colds when I stayed at the
ashram and was usually ill when I came home.  (This was termed
“purification”  -  NONSENSE it was a physiologically normal response to
excessive stress.)  I am quite sure this was related to excessive work and
too little sleep.  I always wondered how full time ashramites survived when I
barely did after just one or two month stints.

At the center, there was an expectation that everyone would give up anything
at all in their personal life to do any kind of ridiculous seva  -  which was
always arranged at particularly short notice.  When GM came to our city, many
of us worked full time for at least two months ahead.  By the time she came I
for one was so ill and exhausted that I did not much care whether she was
here or not!!  However, like everyone else I gooed and garred around saying
how wonderful it all was.  In my heart I just wanted everyone to go away so I
could get some rest!!  In addition, we were all expected (and I did) to give
$$$ to the cause and had to stop $-earning work to do all the pre-tour seva
that was expected.  All this was done I might add admidst an environment of
back-sniping and inefficiency.

I certainly do think that SYDA labor practices are exploitative  -  both for
full time ashram staff people and volunteers of various level.  The whole
notion of SYDA is exploitive actually, morally, spiritually, financially,
socially, physically and intellectually.  I want to put on a bill board
somewhere  --  BEWARE  -  IF YOU JOIN SYDA WATCH YOUR POCKETBOOK, YOUR OWN
INNER ENERGY LEVEL AND YOUR MIND.  ALL WILL BE DRAINED!

Thanks for being here.

Violet.

Subj:  SYDAites social standing 1/2
Date:  96-07-11 09:00:04 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 2

*********A CRITICAL POST, NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED********

Dear AOL readers,

Why are people stuck on SYDA--oftimes even while claiming to have left SYDA?
There is no simple answer.  Perhaps part of the reason economically shaky
and/or socially shaky SYDAites bond with the megacult is:  they crave SOCIAL
STANDING.  They are desperate to gain SOCIAL STANDING AS A MEMBER OF AN
EMPOWERED ELITE.

1) The sense of empowerment comes from the materialistic, Disneyesque
trappings.  "Rajeevi leaves her ratty apartment in Toledo to go to the
opulent ashram, and feed her fantasies regarding spiritual empowerment by
absorbing images of materialism.  Loud materialism = spiritual power."

2) The elitism comes from the ROYALTY METAPHOR that defines SYDA.  SYDA's
throne, its myths about lineage, its costuming, its hierarchical pomp
(replete with groomed advisors, courtiers, plebeian mobs)--all this is part
of the royalty shtick of SYDA.  Whereas TM adopted a "pseudo-science"
shtick-mode, SYDA adopted a "royalty" shtick-mode.  "Pramod leaves the room
in her house where she lives with her disappointed parents and takes vacation
time from her demeaning job.  She then puts on a sari she can't afford and an
inch or two of makeup, so she can strut around like one of the Queen's maids
at the ashram for a week.  She won't try to fix her mess-of-a life since she
has found the SYDA-anesthesia that keeps her from feeling the beneficial pain
which would move her forward.  Unlike her boss and parents, Pramod's SYDA
friends like to chatter about what it means to be an elite warrior-princess."


3)  The social standing comes from the elaborate mutual stroking rituals that
SYDAites engage in.  BY EDICT, people in SYDA ARE REQUIRED TO put up with you
no matter how unlikable you might be.  They MUST greet, welcome, and
love-bomb--whether they like it or not.  Center leaders are especially
sitting ducks for any creep crawling in.  (Ex staff members, any comments on
this?)

So social misfits think they have found a ready-made set of friends in SYDA.
For the social misfit, SYDA is a dream come true, for SYDA seems the IN-CROWD
par excellence.  SYDA touts itself as the beautiful-person moneyed fast-track
to God.  That's about as stereotypically in-crowd as you can get--with God
thrown in to boot!

In the world of SYDA, handsome men recruit dowdy women, beautiful women
recruit mousy men.  Superficial appearances count for all, and fuel the
engines of recruiting.  SYDA's shtick is a magnet for social losers.  Once
the misfit moths start flying around the SYDA flame, they never break free.
How can they face the bleak social reality that awaits them outside of SYDA
walls?  Never mind that SYDA relationships are phony, superficial, and
predicated on membership in the group.  Never mind that the nature of the
relationships is mandated by edicts from on high, which distributes rules of
interpersonal conduct, etc.  The lonely and socially hungry have trouble
distinguishing the real from the phony relationship--after all, they are
often recruited as younger adults with limited experience, and they don't
have a history of good relationships to serve as a standard of judgment.
"Madhavi leaves the people who don't understand her specialness (her family
and old friends) and goes to the SYDA ashram."

The kissy-poo social stroking is most important at the recruitment stage.
People who are in SYDA eventually burn their bridges behind them, making
return to the real world impossible.  After that point, they can be treated
like dogs.

SEE PART 2Subj:  SYDAites social standing 2/2
Date:  96-07-11 09:00:42 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

*********A CRITICAL POST, NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED********

PART 2 OF 2

Dear AOL readers,

What starts out as a desperate search for social standing and human attention
ends up as the kind of life Dissent outlined in his last post.  No loving
parent would want their well educated and spiritually sensitive child to end
up with the fate of SYDAites as described by Dissent:

<<>>

These laborers are good people that we would want to know, like, and love.
But we can't get close to them.  The first step is for them to escape the
prison compound of mind control in which they have been entrapped.  How can a
meaningful relationship proceed from a foundation of cult-shtick?

Thanks to Dissent, Violet, and Blue.  I now remember again that it is worth
clicking past the crazy people to read your illuminating thoughts and
experiences.  Keep on posting!

Subj:  royal court thinking
Date:  96-07-11 10:39:10 EDT
From:  Blue62713

Howie,
As a formal member of the court of Malti Shetty I thank you for your
observations.
Recall all the statues of people/saints from other faiths (Moses, ML King,
etc) ? I always used to tell new people while showing them around the
mini-not so magic-kingdom in SFallsburg that people of all faiths were
welcome. Furthermore it was party line to say that no matter what faith you
were from siddha yoga would deepen your experience of that faith. "You can be
a Jew and be in Siddha Yoga. There is no conflict between the two."
 I said these type of things so that new people wouldn't feel alienated or
that they had to give up a religion that was meaningful to them at the time.
This is a classic example of how siddha yoga does not practise what it
preaches. They say one thing is going on, when in fact there is a totally
different reality taking place.
New recruits may have held onto their (let's call it ) "birth-religion" for a
time, but true devotion to GM eventually must take first place standing in
the spiritual commitment arena.  Other religions are certainly acknowledged
at the ashram. There are those statues, stories/fables/examples which are
encorperated into talks. But there was always a spiritual superiority which
framed these examples, thereby keeping them in their place. Thus the messege
becomes, "Learn from this tale of the Native Americans, but see it through a
Siddha Yoga lens." And boom! Siddha Yoga becomes the defining tool. The lens
which helps devotees put everything into comfortable perspective.
While I was in Siddha Yoga I still celebrated christmas and was always aware
of my Christian roots. But there is an all-pervasive spiritual superiority
which serves as a red flag if one is trying to look for signs that a group
could be a cult. "You can be any religion and be in Siddha Yoga, but realize
that GM is the best form of God." This is heightened by the distinction
between insiders and outsiders which was so blatantly reinforced at GM's
birthday this year.


see part 2

Subj:  part 2:royal thinking
Date:  96-07-11 11:00:23 EDT
From:  Blue62713

Part 2: Royal court thinking

While in siddha yoga I felt i was part of an elite corps of humankind. In
Steven Hassan's book, Combatting Cult Mind Control, he states, "This feeling
of being special, of participating in the most important acts in human
history with a vanguard of committed believers, is strong emotional glue to
keep people sacrificing and working hard. As a community, they feel they have
been chosen to lead humankind out of darkness into a new age of
enlightenment." People in cults "...consider themselves better, more
knowledgeable, and more powerful than anyone else in the world. As a result,
cult members often feel more responsible than they have ever felt in their
lives...they don't know what outsiders mean when they say you shouldn't try
to escape reality and responsibility by joining a cult."
              Other religions were OK to practise, but siddha yoga had to be
your primary religion. OK, once the Nityananda temple was decorated with a
Native American theme. This I consider to be a token gesture. There were
occasional group darshans with gurumayi to acknowledge yom kippur,rosha shana
(forgive my spelling), but never did I hear of people skipping Friday night
darshan to go to shabat services at a local temple. Never did I see muslims
taking time out of their seva to pray 5 times a day to mecca.
        If anything, devotees used siddha yoga to work on or flee from heavy
issues they had from previous religions, such as the prevelence of guilt in
Catholicism.
      These other religions are all very well and good, but the siddha yoga
messege is: we are the best and we have trademarks to prove it. This elitist
mentality is an essential component to cult psychology.

Subj:  fake lineage
Date:  96-07-11 11:10:10 EDT
From:  Blue62713

There has been mention that the siddha yoga lineage is one created by siddha
yoga spin doctors and that it never really existed. This is true. Dissent, I
believe it was you who mentioned other teachers who claimed Nityananda as
their "root guru". There is one more I would like to add.
Swami Chetanananda, aka "Swami" of the Nityananda Institute in Portland OR.
(Formerly of Boston, MA.)
fyi : he used to be a gas station attendent in Indiana, has an extensive
personal fine Indian art collection at the expense of his organization, is
abusive to his followers, and there are many allegations of sexual misconduct
made against him.

just in case anyone was thinking of stopping by to look at his statue of
Nityananda senior   !

Subj:  that's not my experience
Date:  96-07-11 11:12:54 EDT
From:  Blue62713

< To think that "THAT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE" has the status of a final
argument is to be ethics-blind, in my opinion.   >

yes yes yes yes yes! YES.

When I hear that BS arguement I just want to tear my hair out. It is
incontionable. I want to scream at the person I'm speaking with, "Come to
your senses you fool! Use your brain and think independently from your
preprogrammed robot siddha speak! Do you have no compassion?"

I had dinner with a man who is just getting into siddha yoga last week. I
spoke all about my tough times on tour and told him so many facts that syda
would rather he didn't know. (probably lots of the same ones you know, lots
from the nyorker article/the open letter). Most poignant of all is that there
is some heavy sh_t in my siddha yoga experience ( - having to do with abuse,
etc. .. just another fallen darshangirl wanna be comin' atchya via email  !
). I told this Fallsburg bound recruit about it in great detail and ended
with the question,
"So what do you think of all this?"
He shakes his head slowly and raises his eyebrows.
"Do you not believe me ?" I asked.
"I believe it's true for you, but that's not my experience of Gurumayi."

AARRRGGG!!!!!

To say, "That's not my experience" is to say "I will turn a blind eye no
matter what horrors I witness." Hello Nazi Germany.

Thanks for your thoughtful posts, Blue


Subj:  Re:royal court thinking
Date:  96-07-11 11:47:23 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914

You could never REALLY keep your religion in SY because if you did, you would
be seriously offended by some of the things said in public programs.

...i.e.:  a Jewish woman giving a talk about feeling conflicted about doing
seva on Yom Kippur.  She had decided not to do any, but was approached by
another slayvite who said she was all alone in the kitchen that day doing
dishes.  Miracle of miracles, the slayvite was wearing a Star of David, so it
must have been a sign from God and Guru that seva on Yom Kippur was a
mitzvah, SGMKJ...

...i.e., Meg C. singing about "Tales of a child born long ago that meant not
a thing to me...I the Child and Mayi the Mother, we the living Christmas
wonder."

...i.e., Chanukah program in which the words of Dayenu, a song celebrating
God's compassion to the Jews in liberating them from Egypt, are changed to,
"If she only gave us Shakti, if she only gave us Bhakti, gave us Shakti, gave
us Bhakti, Dayenu ("it would suffice us.")"

Can anyone think of any others?

Subj:  Re:fake lineage
Date:  96-07-11 11:52:16 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914

Blue, very interesting about Swami Chetanananda, who was initiated into
Sannyas by Muktananda, BTW.  I had visited their publishing office in
Cambridge years ago and found his followers to be smugly superior, especially
when they found out I was in SY.

In the past year or so, Chetanananda has been writing scathing, defensive,
rather childish letters to Yoga Journal every time they publish a story about
gurus gone bad.  Evidently he thinks these things aren't important, that it's
all gossip and that gurus should be beyond reproach. Now we know why!

Subj:
Madder than hell!
Date:  96-07-11 22:01:55 EDT
From:  Violet1884

I know this has all been said before but I am just so angry about SYDA today
that I want to say something about it!!  The more I learn about what has and
is going on in that cult the madder I get!!  I understand you, Dissent, when
you say that you are not sure that there is any baby to be saved in the SYDA
bath water!!  As I look at my own life I find that the things that I learned
in SYDA that I am retaining in my life are not the property of SYDA.  There
is nothing that is exclusively SYDA that I want to keep.  Today I was looking
a sari that GM gave me and was trying to decide what to do with it.  I might
use it to clean the toilet!!

This whole “trust your own experience” thing is a bunch of junk!!  If someone
is raped, do I  say “Well I have not been raped so I will not take a stand
against rape.”  If someone has her house broken into do I say “Well I have
not been burgled so I do not need to be supportive of my neighbor who has
been.”  If someone is beaten do I say “I was not beaten  .....”    you get
the point.  As a number of people have said before, it is just like the
holocaust when people tried to pretend nothing was happening.  We do not have
to experience abuse personally to speak out about it and take a stand.  (And
EVERYONE in SYDA has experienced abuse as everyone have given some $$  that
have been used in unethical ways even if some have not experienced any other
kind abuse.  Of course the mind control that goes on, oh so subltly, is
abusive too  -  but most of those still in SYDA do not recognise that!!  )

I am becoming very tired of people who stay in SYDA with their heads in the
sand.  (In hatha yoga they call it the ostrich pose!)  I am becoming very
tired of people in my life who say we can be friends but we must not talk
about SYDA  -  and then they go on and on about their own “bliss” within the
cult.  From now on I am taking equal time  -  every time someone I know talks
their mindless SYDA chatter I am going to express the reality of SYDA to the
same amount and the same degree.  I am madder than hell and I am not going to
take it any more!

Whew    I feel better!!

Thanks for being here.

Violet

Subj:  Parrot out of the ashram
Date:  96-07-11 23:04:50 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

 Dear Violet,

You say

<<>>

This is a very important point that cannot be overemphasized.  A large
proportion of brainwashed disciples and brainwashed exs who describe
themselves as "openminded" and/or "not members of SYDA" feel that the only
thing that merits attention is rigorous evidentiary discussion of the
criminal acts alleged against the SYDA leadership--the alleged sexual
misconduct, misappropriation of funds, violence, guns, threats, etc.   At one
time there was quite a parade of "I'm not in SYDA, but where is the
evidence?" idiots passing through AOL.

These people are totally brainwashed, in my opinion. These brainwashees are
incapable of recognizing how completely insane the whole ball of wax is, of
how crazy the public propaganda is, of how crazy the guru is, of how crazy
the mob behavior is!  Even a pinch of sanity is all that one needs to see how
crazy the situation is.  Forget about the allegations--you don't need them to
see that the whole thing is bonkeroony!

I think the allegations are important and I don't want to trivialize the
injury that they may have caused to specific individuals.  I just want to
point out that the brainwashed people's narrow focus on "proof, allegations,
and misconduct" reveals that they cannot recognize the travesty that is right
in front of their eyes:  SYDA's tinkertoy thought-system mind control shtick.

While the allegations regarding isolated secret misbehaviors are important,
it seems clear that SYDA's mind control affects more people, and causes an
enormous amount of long-term damage.

I am especially aghast at the individuals who have followed the SYDA
discussion on AOL for month after month, who nevertheless stubbornly adhere
to the most bizarre kinds of rationalizations and apologist arguments.
After reading all the horror stories insiders have bravely revealed online,
you would think any sane person would come to terms with acknowledging the
abusiveness that is BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM.  You don't need to dig up some
secret or allegation to see that there is something wrong.  All you need to
do is open your eyes and acknowledge the obvious.

When I see people demanding more proof, or blaming the victim (usually in
crudely concealed ways), when I hear that patronizing, antiseptically
rational and informed tone that passive-aggressively discounts the reality of
other people's experiences of SYDA, my brainwash meter starts clicking like a
Geiger counter at Chernobyl.  Those who cannot acknowledge what is patently
obvious and public are profoundly brainwashed, in my opinion.  It matters
little if they proclaim they are inside, or outside, or never was in, or
never was out, of SYDA.

Yes Violet, the mind control is both the worst and the most unacknowledged
problem of SYDA.  And it hangs onto people even after they supposedly
"leave."

Swami Howie says:  "YOU CAN TAKE THE PARROT OUT OF THE ASHRAM, BUT YOU
SOMETIMES CAN'T TAKE THE ASHRAM OUT OF THE PARROT."

Subj:  Re: labor practices (1 of 2)
Date:  96-07-12 00:00:36 EDT
From:  PattyV1953

Larry, on this issue, you mention that  << EX-SY people (might) lodge legal
or formal complaints against SYDA's labor practices>>.  I seriously doubt
that anyone has any legal recourse.  Whether we were there for a weekend, a
month, or years, we were there, at the time, with the understanding that this
was a volunteer effort, a spiritual practice, and the "opportunity to serve"
was presented to us in that context.

The key is that, at the time we did our sevas, we did not consider ourselves
to be "employees" in any sense of the word, and the Foundation did not
consider itself our "employer."  While some (indeed, many) under the sway of
"brainwashing" and "mind control," may certainly have been persuaded to
abdicate their "voluntary" status and surrender more productive energies and
years than was prudent, the "evidence" is likely insufficient to persuade a
judge and/or jury in a civil action that there existed an employer-employee
relationship in *anyone's* mind at the time.  I look at this issue in my work
for the Social Security Administration, and I can tell you that it would
never hold water with SSA or the IRS.

One personal experience:  Early on in my SY years, the local center leader
decided to leave her job and home and accept a summer staff position in SF.
Anxious to keep the center going in Buffalo, I circulated a letter to other
devotees which began with what I thought was a "joyous" announcement to the
effect that this person "had been offered and had accepted a job" at the
ashram.  You cannot imagine the brouhaha this caused.  The poor woman was
mercilessly interrogated and berated by ashram management about the source of
the letter and the gross "lack of understanding" it represented.  She nearly
lost her position and, I might add, left SY after that summer, due in no
small part to the overreaction of the zealots who made her feel as if she had
committed some great sin against dharma.

My friend took full responsibility for this "incident" as "center leader" (a
default position she took on when the center leader-couple left for India for
a year), but it was really I who was mistaken.  You see, no one in Buffalo
had received any center leader training - a great breach which was only
slowly remedied - so there was no one "on guard."  I was totally ignorant of
the concept of "seva" and in that ignorance interpreted the staff position as
one akin to a summer gig at girl scout camp. I learned fast and early that
"seva" was not to be considered by *anyone* "work" or a "job."

The Foundation, in that instance, was absolutely scrupulous about maintaining
this distinction.  I thought it was to preserve the spiritual purity and
purpose of the practice of seva, and I think we agree that there is a
classical definition of "service to the master" performed as a spiritual
practice under the close supervision of the master.  However, my
understanding now is that this reaction by representatives of the Foundation
was tied to notion of "sevites" in place of "workers" in a
ashram-as-big-business setting.

Seva is the backbone of  this particular "not for profit" foundation. It is
much less complicated legally to maintain vast holdings and property through
"volunteer" service.  No Workers Comp, no unemployment insurance; no
employer's share of FICA, Medicare, and state and federal taxes; no
liability.  Costs are cut tremendously.  There are many legal implications to
allowing "seva" to be construed as "work for pay or profit," and the
Foundation's attorneys are, I'm sure, better versed than I in the fine points
of maintaining that distinction.  (Continued in Part II)

Subj:  Re:labor
practices (2 of 2)
Date:  96-07-12 00:10:49 EDT
From:  PattyV1953

Speaking from direct professional experience, I know that religious orders
sometimes regret their "noncovered" SSA status.  As a claims rep in Brooklyn,
NY, in the early 80s, I handled the "buying in" of an entire (but very tiny)
order of Catholic brothers.  They had "opted out" of Social Security, as was
their option, years before.  But when they came to our office, they were a
group of 40 or so elderly religious with no medical or hospital insurance.
Facing potential health costs which would wipe them out, they "opted in,"
paying the taxes for 10 years of minimal SSA "quarters of coverage" for each
brother which would immediately qualify them all for a small retirement
benefit (to be turned over to the order) and Medicare.

Now, in that case, the "employer" (the religious order) had made a formal
decision to "opt out" and then, as a whole and on behalf of each member,
decided to "opt in" for the general good.  This would never happen in the
SYDA Foundation.  Seva is held out as someone one does for oneself. Remember,
"the Guru does not need our seva."  There is no suggestion that this is a
mutually beneficial arrangement!  It is not an "employer-employee"
relationship - or even one of independent contractors hired to do a job.

No, I do not believe that sevites have a prayer if they are looking to
receive anything akin to temporal compensation for the great personal
sacrifice their labors on behalf of SYDA represent.  Perhaps, as I learned so
well in Catholic school, "their reward will be great in heaven."

Subj:  The
Lineage
Date:  96-07-12 00:30:38 EDT
From:  PattyV1953

Dissent, you mention << Nityananda's guru is vaguely described in some
out-of-print SYDA literature, and before him, no known predecessor exists.
SYDA solves this problem by imaginatively placing medieval and primordial
gurus in its  lineage.   Apparently, the SYDA Publicity Department has
travelled abroad and kissed the Blarney Stone while on tour.>>

In the most recent edition of "Nityananda" by Muktananda, only recently
reprinted and edited, there is actually a reference, by name, to Nityananda's
Guru.  I gave away my copy of the book but perhaps someone has it and can
check this out for us.  I was quite shocked, after hearing and accepting the
"primordial Guru" line(age) that now the Foundation was rewriting this part
of SYDA history as well!

Subj:  Re:The Lineage
Date:  96-07-12 05:45:19 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Dear Pat -

Waking up to SYDA's fraudulence is one big shock after another, but there you
have it.

Nityananda's guru was named in the book Amma wrote about Baba, I think.  Amma
was GM's rival for Baba's affection and GM hated her a lot, so that book may
be hard to find now.  But Nit's guru was identified, and he was a dentist or
something in Nit's home town.  That's the last known guru in the syda
lineage.  Before him, the next one mentioned will be Shankaracharya - the
founder of the Saraswati order of monks in the 12th century.  Fanciful,
imaginative, creative geneology - BUT BOGUS!

Subj:  Birthday Bash - 1 of 3
Date:  96-07-12 05:47:06 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Well, pardon my long windedness, but here's a few more of my 2 cents.

Part 1
Although I haven't attended a Gurumayi Birthday Bash for the last 2 years,
the news of the recent no holds barred event has brought up a lot of thoughts
and feelings.  I've been trying to summarize all this for myself and hope you
all don't mind if I think out loud here.  I'm repeating myself if you've been
reading about Syda on AOL, but for numerous
reasons I think these things bear repeating.

Whose party was more splendid, Donald Trump's 50th Birthday, or Gurumayi's?
The point of both celebrations seemed to be to impress the participants with
the apparently unlimited wealth, power and control that both Trump and GM
have driven themselves to attain.  Except even Donald Trump didn't dare
invite his guests to worship and adore him, although he might have secretly
wished to.  Donald Trump has less chutzpah than Gurumayi, I guess.

As those who have ever been on syda's staff well know, the main point of GM's
birthday celebrations in South Fallsburg is not just to provide a display of
the wealth and grandeur at GM's command, but more importantly to create the
excitement and hysteria that will make the summer profitable.  The birthday
party has many purposes, but the
most important is to help generate the multi-millions of dollars that GM has
been accustomed to collect during her summers in the Borscht Belt.  Syda
suckers can be expected to spend quite a sum on bookstore tchotchkes (all
those mandatory appurtenances for proper practice of Syda Yoga) on summer
weekends at the good old not-for-profit SYDA headquarters.  One educated
estimate is $4 million gets collected on a successful holiday weekend.

So let them eat cake!  No matter if GM is now persona non grata in India,
where the brother she persecuted for years is now elevated to high priest
status  ( (Mahamandeleshwar); no matter if SYDA is increasingly associated
with duplicity and hypocrisy in yoga and new age circles.  GM knows how to make hay while the
sun shines in the west, and as her birthday party demonstrates, she's a
trouper - the show must go on!

Subj:  Birthday Bash - 2 of 3
Date:  96-07-12 05:47:55 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Part 2

It makes sense, given GM's personality, that the birthday would be, not more
modest, but more extravagant, this year.  GM has based her life on denial --
denial of her own abuse by Muktananda; denial of his uncontrollable
compulsive behaviors (especially his sexual abuse of young girls and women);
denial of her own extensive psychological problems, including a severe eating
disorder; and denial of her dependency on, and the rampant sexual abuses of,
George Afif - the man who orchestrated her brother's expulsion from the SYDA
throne.  I can't distinguish the "transcendence" that
GM claims to have achieved, and which she teaches others, from plain old
pathological denial.

Maybe the only way for Gurumayi to maintain her desperately needed denial is
to become even more rigid, more paranoid, and more controlling.  I'm basing
my observations on reports of the birthday event, since I wasn't there.  But
here's how it sounded to me.  The 20 foot puppet-saints flanking Gurumayi at this year's
birthday send a message which says, "Gurumayi holds heaven and earth in her
hands and on her string, and her world is much larger and more awesome than
yours.  If you don't obey, follow all the cues in unison, and ring the happy
bells on command, you cannot be a part of my totally controlled, fabulous
world."  And boy, does that scare the devotees into compliance.  And lots of
self-blame and guilt if you can't get it up to feel the group feelings you're
being ordered to feel.

What Gurumayi is unable to distinguish is that she is not sitting in a
pantheon of giant, omnipotent saints - they are just puppets.  It's as though
she has created the ultimate   narcissistic fantasy world, in which she sees herself as a giant
puppet-saint, being manipulated from on high by Baba in the sky, and everyone
who presents themselves to her is potentially her puppet.  She uses all her
wealth and power and her devotees' resources to maintain this illusion of
total control.  That's one way of dealing with pathological dread of people
and relationship.  Maybe masks and puppets fascinate Gurumayi because she was
so manipulated by Muktananda, trained as a child to wear a mask, and to call
this maniacal kind of control "discipline" and "devotion."

I fear for her devotees, who are only too ready and willing to let Gurumayi
control them and pull the strings of their lives.  Many are willing to follow
her into greater insularity and isolation, only to find themselves lost in
her distorted looking glass world - where in order to stay alive, you must
understand everything to be the opposite of what it really is (as in the
example above, where wearing a false mask is called discipline).  Gurumayi
was not Muktananda's disciple, she was and is still his puppet-slave.  How
can a slave teach others to be free?

Subj:  Birthday Bash - 3 of 3
Date:  96-07-12 05:48:40 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Part 3

More musings on the  b'day.  The rigid way she sat as the little boys and
girls did arati to her and everyone adored her is supposed to impress the
masses with how  transcendent she is.  It's an effect, like the  hypnotist's
dreadful voice and impressive stature.  But think about it:  Why would anyone
need to be adored in that way, and then pretend they don't need to be adored
or care about being adored --  but then make sure that wealthy devotees
donate a few hundred thousand so that the adoration can be as big as
possible?  How many times have staff members heard Gurumayi say, "I don't
need any of this, it's just for the devotees."  GIVE ME A BREAK!!  Gurumayi
sits there claiming she doesn't need anything, she's a renunciate.  She sits
like a statue,  pretending to be in some transcendent state.  But she's just authorized a few
hundred thousand in donations to spend on the party --  AND she has demanded
of her staff and a few hundred volunteers that they STAY UP ALL NIGHT FOR A
FEW WEEKS TO PUT THIS SHINDIG TOGETHER.  Help me out here, do you understand
this?  Is this whole charade Gurumayi plays not in itself a loud and clear
indication that she is severely deranged?

But see, part of what is so exciting to devotees at the birthday is the way
they get to fling away the rational and allow themselves to be orgiastically
emotional and irrational.  Gurumayi knows how much people need emotional
release.  How about some of those Intensives with her, where, with just one
word of suggestion, the whole place starts shrieking and howling?  People
need emotional release and they need to find a way to feel valued, and she
really knows how to profit from that -- even as she repeatedly and
consistently displays her boundless contempt for those who serve her.

By the way, how much do you think a birthday party for the inner guru would
cost?  What does catering on the subtle plane cost these days, anyway?

It's true that the idea of a community of good-hearted, caring people is
attractive and I miss some aspects of being a part of the SYDA community.
But this giant saint trip is  so delusional.  If SYDA could get rid of its
guru the way Kripalu did, maybe the SYDA community could still have something
to offer.  The Kripalu community has done a lot of work to try to sort out
their Guru's mess and their own confusion.  I admire their honesty and
courage.        

Subj:  Labor laws: Kripalu vs. SYDA
Date:  96-07-13 00:19:37 EDT
From:  Larryom

>>Seva is the backbone of  this particular "not for profit" foundation. It is
much less complicated legally to maintain vast holdings and property through
"volunteer" service.  No Workers Comp, no unemployment insurance; no
employer's share of FICA, Medicare, and state and federal taxes; no
liability.  Costs are cut tremendously<<

Thanks for the info, Patty.  This provides one more vote for Kripalu's way of
handling things as opposed to SYDA's:  Back in 1989 I spent 3 months there
(Kripalu in Lenox, MA) doing seva in their "SLT program" (Spritual Lifestyle
Training).  One day I cut my index finger rather severely cutting vegetables
and had to be rushed to the local emergency room.  Kripalu put the whole
thing on Workmen's Compensation and I was legally considered their employee!
No problems, no questions asked.  It's really nice to know that as a
community they've basically been playing it straight all along.

Subj:  Baby in bath water
Date:  96-07-13 00:34:25 EDT
From:  BVena

Re the comment that one shouldn't throw out the baby with the SYDA bath
water. If there's a baby at all it's the one from that horror flick "It's
Alive!"
Run away! Run Away!Subj:  on with our lives 1 of 3
Date:  96-07-13 07:13:19 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Part 1

Well, there is a Part 3 to my recent musings, and here it is.

SYDA (i.e., Gurumayi) may not have changed much, except to get more rigid and
more paranoid, but me and some friends who have left SYDA (close to 2 years
ago now) have been talking about what's different for us.  This kind of sums
up what we feel we've gained and regained, from leaving SYDA.

We know we haven't mastered the art of life or learned all we need to know,
and we don't ever expect to, as we once did, when infinite perfection seemed
like a desirable goal.  AS IF infinite perfection could ever be attained by
any human being -- NOT!  But we are pointed in healthier directions now and
have goals that are humanly possible.  For one thing, we're not looking to
buy "transcendent perfection" any more.   If that's what somebody is selling,
we're convinced that the salesman and the product are both phony.  We do
believe that life, as it is, is worthwhile and worth living deeply.

Our ambitions and goals are now inner directed, rather than under Gurumayi's
control.  We are striving toward richer and more meaningful connection in our
lives - with ourselves, others, the world.  Most of our former SYDA friends
need to tell themselves that we have fallen from grace since leaving SYDA.
That's how they can dispense with us most efficiently, and it's what they're
taught to believe in the religion of syda yoga.  But it ain't necessarily so.
In fact:

We are investing time and energy in relationships to real people with whom
actual mutuality and reciprocity is possible -- as opposed to focusing more
and more narrowly on an imaginary relationship with our personal fantasy of
Gurumayi.  That's a big one.

And we know that our feeling of having thousands of friends, because we all
loved Gurumayi, was also a mirage.  They dropped us the minute we took the
gags and blindfolds off.  The house of cards collapsed, but we're rebuilding
on firm foundations now.

We are learning to work through conflicts, impasses and disagreements with
people.  We are learning to communicate.  Instead of dealing with conflict,
disappointment and anger by withdrawing or shutting down, or by thinking
about Gurumayi and turning it all  over to her, -- in other words, by NOT
dealing with it -- we are instead using our own resources to face and work
through these challenges.  This means we can't avoid what hurts or what's
frightening any more.  It means we're alive again.

We are making use of talents and interests that we abandoned for the sake of
spending more time, energy and money on SYDA activities.  Our lives have
color and texture again - it ain't all reduced to BLUE anymore.   Subj:  on
with our lives 2 of 3
Date:  96-07-13 07:13:39 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Part 2

No more evening programs in South Fallsburg!  HALLEJULAH!  GLORIA IN
EXECELSIS DEO!!!!!  We no longer force ourselves to pretend to take pleasure
in sitting for hours on a hard marble floor with aching knees and buttocks,
uncomfortably half-asleep and numb as we listen to Gurumayi awkwardly reading
her endless talk, scripted by her flunkeys, in her monotonous, infantilizing
drone, with her painfully off-key chanting, and the endless SYDA-commercials
and pre-fab experience talks   --  praying fervently for the program to end
so we can get up and move around, and go wait on lines for hours to spend a
fortune in Amrit, and go to darshan to give more money to GM, so she can
record more horrible tapes of her wounded-animal singing.  And then go cram
into a homeless-shelter style dorm room in an old fire-trap hotel in the
Borscht Belt and listen to people snore for a few hours before getting up
again to sort seeds and vacuum.

WHAT WERE WE THINKING???????????  OH GOD!!!  GREAT GOD ALMIGHTY, FREE AT
LAST!!!!!  I need a moment of silence here to give thanks that I'm not
spending my life doing this anymore.

Amen.  Subj:  on with our lives 3 of 3
Date:  96-07-13 07:14:02 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Part 3

What else?  We no longer have to obsessively ruminate about whether Gurumayi
will pay attention to us or not.  If she makes eye contact, it's an
affirmation of her love and a sign that she hears our prayer; if she doesn't
pay attention, it's still a sign of her love via the means of burning our
egos.  She loves me, she loves me not - but even when she loves me not, it
really means she loves me.  OH FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!  What kind of insanity
was all  that?  Thank God this sadomasochistic nightmare is over.

Free of these obsessive preoccupations and all this I will do her bidding
garbage, we are having way more fun and taking more pleasure in life and in
the world around us.  We had become very limited in our capacity for
pleasure; we wanted to focus on the guru rather than on "sense pleasures."
Some of us hadn't had a vacation on the beach, or travelled,  for years.  We
had spent many holidays and important family events - births and deaths -
with our backs turned to our families as we stared in a stupor at Gurumayi.
We can see now what a tragic error this was, how many people in our lives
were hurt because we abandoned them when they wouldn't join is in worshipping
Gurumayi.   We're repairing and mending.

What else?  We don't hide behind unreal facades of niceness and spiritual
correctness now; we are getting to be more comfortable integrating various
aspects of ourselves (our anger, for example) rather than obeying internal
and external commands to deny and suppress.  This feels liberating and real,
and we feel more connected in our communications and relationships with
others.

We are reclaiming the aggressive and assertive parts of our personalities
that we were ashamed of and afraid to express.  We realize that our
discomfort with these parts of ourselves was exploited by Gurumayi, who uses
the submission and unquestioning obedience of her devotees for her own
aggrandizement.  We're finding the right place for our difficult feelings
instead of pretending they don't exist.

We recognize that in life, it is impossible to escape suffering, and we
aren't looking for magic relief or instant erasure of emotional pain.  We're
living and feeling and struggling without the syda veil of denial.

Real pleasure, real love, real relationship, with all its complications, is
now welcome back in our lives -- although we're still learning how to permit
ourselves to give and to take, to live without a mask, and to have faith and
take pride in ourselves.  Having seen through Gurumayi, and disabused
ourselves of our illusions about her, we don't need her anymore to confer
value upon us.  We value and respect ourselves too much now, and we won't
fall for the same scam again.

AMEN!

Subj:  Shaking off labels 1/3
Date:  96-07-15 10:31:26 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 3

Dear AOL readers,

I found much personal meaning in Dissent's recent posts, and want to publicly
thank him for taking the effort of writing them.

After reading his wonderful messages, the insanity of a message on the
devotees' folder came into sharp relief.  My comments below on that insane
message will be old news to those of you who are successfully deprogrammed.
Alternatively, my comments will be incomprehensible to those who are
brainwashed.  So why am I writing comments for which there is no audience?  I
guess I'm writing not to talk to someone in particular, but in the spirit of
shaking off labels.

There is nothing wrong with taking a minute to shake off SYDA labels that
zombies attach to us.  That's what this message does.  Anyone who has
attempted to say even the smallest thing about SYDA that was not party line
has experienced having labels placed on them.  You all know what I mean, I am
sure.

 For me, shaking off these labels is not an "intellectual exercise," an
exercise in "deconstruction"  (some of you, would you learn what this word
means before you use it?), nor a display of "anger," "ego," or "hate."   In
fact, "aspiritual intellectual, egotistical, angry, deluded" are themselves
labels to be shaken off.   Again, the non-zombies among you know what I mean.
Preliminaries over, let us now take a look into the "snake pit."

SEE PART 2Subj:  Shaking off labels 2/3
Date:  96-07-15 10:33:28 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 2

Dear AOL readers,

It can't be a coincidence that a message about seva (labor) on the devotees
folder appeared just after a discussion of SYDA's labor abuses on the ethics
folder.  So right off the bat, we can see that the author's choice to
critique the labor-abuse discussion on the devotees' folder, as if
coincidental, is yet another example of the standard backhanded SYDA
technique of addressing critics covertly and obliquely.  SYDA people take
after their leader in being comfortable with backhanded comments, sneaky
doubletalk, innuendo, and passive-aggressive retaliation.   Any normal person
would have just posted their response on the ethics folder, and directly
addressed specific persons and arguments.

This crazy message begins thusly:

<<>>

TRANSLATION FROM INSANE-SPEAK TO SANE-SPEAK: <<>>

Now to the next excerpt.

MORE NONSENSE:  <<>>

TRANSLATION FROM INSANE-SPEAK TO SANE-SPEAK: <<>>

More nonsense:

MORE INSANE-SPEAK:  <<>>

Here the author is less careful about concealing his purpose, which is to
discredit SYDA critics.   He points out that critics are spiritually bereft.
He implies that SYDA critics are materialistic, and lack discrimination, lack
understanding, and lack heart.  This is pretty much straightforward
name-calling, not very well concealed--despite the fact that the author seems
it very important to seem spiritual at all times (see his "Thank You" in the
signoff, the passive-aggressive fingerprint close, a favorite of Gurumayi's
in her backhanded pronouncements.)


MORE INSANE-SPEAK:  <<>>

Like Shiva, the author dances--without earthly purpose, without the low
thought of material gain, but in divine ecstasy and freedom, as a pure
celebration of God.  Unlike those pointing out labor abuses in SYDA, the
author has transcended.  "Jai Jai Zombie!"

SEE PART 3
Subj:  Shaking off labels 3/3
Date:  96-07-15 10:35:10 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 3

Dear AOL readers,

MORE NONSENSE:  <<>>

This kind of oatmeal-brained prose perhaps results from keeping one's
cerebrum shut off for years on end.  This sentence is say-nothing gibberish.


MORE NONSENSE: <<>>

Newt Gingrich hasn't become a liberal democrat yet, but look at this example
of one camp paying lip service to the other!  We have here a psychotic
solipsist making a token gesture towards the "objectivist" camp.  What
escapes the author is, the subjective-objective binarism is not a concern of
those who are critiquing SYDA.  That kind of metaphysical sandbox-playing
might capture the attention of brainwashed losers going nowhere, who are
wallowing in the New Age.  But what does "subjective-objective" blithering
have to do with noticing that a multi-million dollar organization has
circumvented labor laws?

MORE NONSENSE:  <<>>

This is truly deranged.  It indicates a complete loss of touch with
consensual reality, the bedrock of ethical social conduct which none of us
can do without.  This person believes his vision transmutes and spiritualizes
the interactions he has with people around him.  This means that what other
people feel and intend is irrelevant to the author's narcissistic
interpretations of the world around him.  The only reality to be acknowledged
is his narcissistic interpretations of others.  The people themselves are
unimportant.

MORE NONSENSE:  <<>>

There is the other shoe dropping, oh so predictably.  The old gratitude
mind-control line.  SYDA critics are ingrates, unwilling to learn.

LAST BIT OF NONSENSE:  <<>>

Thank us for giving you an opportunity to reinforce your psychotic delusions
and for us holding still while you sling mud?  Consider this message here to
be my "your welcome."

Subj:  mail responce, baby in BW
Date:  96-07-15 16:12:47 EDT
From:  BVena

the following is my responce to some Email.
.>>>>>> Thanks for the input and nice to hear from you. As always your take
on the siddha yoga (SYDA to be more precise) travesty is appreciated. Now, my
take is different but that's cool. My life was stunted by the whole thing.
Also I put up w/ harassment there that I never would have allowed otherwise.
It was very destabilizing to have to think about sexual orientation when I
was way past that point in my life..that's one reason I know Muktananda and
GM are/were full of BS! If you know one tenant to be ABSOLUTELY FALSE, then
everything they say is suspect..all of it. For the same reason I do not
accept orthodox judaism, catholicism, snake handling baptist or any one else
with some made up religion that makes book on the suffering of others..namely
ME. If you've never been on the back of the bus you can't possibly understand
what it's like to be jeered at by a bible, Koran, shiva sutra, etc  thumper.
Perhaps this statement doesn't apply to you, and I'm mixing metaphors, but
you take the point I'm sure. SO for that reason I don't take anything you say
personally...you weren't there.
 As to the point about viewing SY from an anthropological point of view..this
is laudable...I do the same and the deeper I delve the more it looks like hog
wash. Just because something exists doesn't make it true. However you can
take some artifacts to decorate your life with. Here we are back to the point
of absolutely knowing that everything is not as it seems. The "truths" SY
hands out aren't truth at all, just part of a complex system.. The fact that
SY pundit Ram Butler has publicly dismissed christianity as impossible in
light of his SY training  is a pretty clear indication that its all a matter
of taste. If Oral Roberts was handing out the shakty (and some swear by it)
and the meal tickets he'd be grinding out that line of BS instead.
 Now here is where I side with you...Something was gained by the
experience..Me too. However I don't think it had to be SY. You probably would
have achieved some kind of transcendence anyway. Much of what passes for
anger on line is merely "nety nety" (sp?) not this ,not this... see my
point.. I once wrote what turned out to be the Hagelian theorem while on
acid..Transcendence big time.. But just because many scientist use it as
their religion and I "experienced it" doesn't make it true. It's a mental
construct that fits into, guess what, a belief system. I reject ALL belief
systems as being childish cultural aberrations. So you see I'm practicing SY
by my position of "nety nety". All the babies in the bath water have to go!
I'm really glad you got me to think about this because I was feeling a bit
empty "spiritually". Now I feel great..the experience of transcendence
..satori is at hand! Perhaps SY is a koan after all.
 I'm going to post this as I think I'm on to something here. Thanks again for
the input. This is so cool( LOL)
Beau



Subj:  Re:Swami Howie 3
Date:  96-07-18 01:28:06 EDT
From:  Dmp1245

Give it a break, Narada.  We don't care!!

Subj:  Our religious impulses 1/2
Date:  96-07-18 07:41:35 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 2

Dear AOL readers,

Larry puts words in my mouth when he writes,

<<>>

I have never said that people in SY were "dogs not worth knowing."  Larry,
don't carelessly put words into my mouth, particularly these words.  You
attribute to me the opposite of what I think.  The only time I have used the
word "dog" is to humorously refer to myself as a "barking dog," which is the
term Baba coined and disciples adopted to use on SYDA critics.

It is because I like people, including SYDA people, and have an optimistic
view of human nature and of the possibilities of communication, that I
criticize SYDA behaviors and concepts.  Otherwise why even bother having a
discussion?

People, including SYDA people, have strong inborn religious and idealistic
impulses.  I think this is a great thing.  We wouldn't be human without these
impulses.  But there is a flip side to them which begs the question:  "how do
cults play on these impulses to systematically induce large numbers of
idealistic and sensible individuals to forget themselves, lose their sense of
ethics, and so forth?"

Notions such as "mind control" seem useful when evaluating the dynamics
involved in transforming a heterogenous group of idealistic recruits into a
homogenous group of ethics-blind cult members.  I just saw at a SYDA ashram
perhaps thousands of people ringing on command, IN LOCKSTEP UNISON, little
Pavlovian bells while thinking given, designated thoughts.  It was
undisguised behavioral mod.  Doesn't a term like "mind control" fit this
scenario?

Of course I understand that people will feel insulted if you say they behave
in a way that suggests "mind control" and "brainwashing."  But, in my view,
it is generous to call SYDA people brainwashed; to do so acknowledges the
existence of a submerged identity under the cult pseudopersonality.  That's
why it is often the people who love cult members the most, who will call them
brainwashed.  A mother will see her SYDA son and say:  "that's not my
son--something has happened to him!"

SEE PART 2Subj:  Our religious impulses 2/2
Date:  96-07-18 07:43:00 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 2

Dear AOL readers,

Someone online said she felt getting over SYDA was like recovering from a
stroke, and described the feeling of regaining lost brain function.  Others
have said that while in SYDA they did unethical things that they never would
have thought themselves capable of, given their prior history.  Others have
spoken of feeling isolated and trapped after making the mistake of joining
SYDA "staff."  Others have talked about the intense and systematic peer
pressure experienced in the SYDA ashram.  Others have described having their
identities battered out of them.

Altogether, we have many people who are saying that in their period of deep
involvement with SYDA, they were acting in a way that they now see was
unnatural and undesirable, and contrary to their instincts.  Given this
wealth of testimony, it makes sense to describe SYDA people (in some cases)
as having "snapped" in response to some kind of intense regime, and as having
thereby lost faculties of judgment they formerly had.  And it makes sense to
describe their exiting from SYDA as a process of finding their own voice
again.  It seems as if becoming a SYDAite is not a process of "remembering
who you are" (as SYDA teaches) but of "forgetting who you are," of erasing
who you are--as if your identity were a dispensable mass of samskaric crud.


Some of my friends believe that "incurable" cult disciples were damaged goods
to begin with, and that there is no underlying qualities worth stimulating in
them.  These pessimistic friends of mine use SYDA as an example, and say
"look, SYDAites are worshiping a crazy and sadistic woman as a God, even
though they admit the truth of some of the worst allegations!  Doesn't this
alone prove that they are beyond hope!"  I have always disagreed with this
pessimistic view, and will continue to do so.  I just don't believe that
people are born zombies.  I have too much trust in the force of the human
spirit.

When you see people become zombies in large groups, it makes no sense to say
they all are inherently and separately nutty.  When mobs of people exhibit
sudden and radical personality change in predictably uniform ways, it makes
more sense to argue that some kind of systematic regime has been imposed on
them.  Given this, we shouldn't say that SYDA disciples are not worth
knowing, and are "losers."  They are just people like all of us.  Getting
caught up in a cult is like falling prey to an opportunistic infection.  Once
these cult members gain some distance from the cult, they behave and think
like the rest of us, that is, in accordance with their own individuality.

I think there are great people submerged under those SYDA
pseudopersonalities;  it is because I think this that I have an interest in
the discussion of cult dynamics.  Given that there are thousands of cults in
America now (many of which have thousands of members) discussions like this
AOL thread are worth pursuing, even if casually.  The topic of cult
indoctrination touches on the basic elements of human nature.  It is worth
reflecting on what it is about us as humans, and about our religious
impulses, that make us susceptible to cult recruitment.

Subj:  Re:Our religious impulses 1/
Date:  96-07-18 13:15:34 EDT
From:  Larryom

You're right Howie--I did say it was a vague memory. The quote I
misinterpreted was the following:

>>The kissy-poo social stroking is most important at the recruitment stage.
People who are in SYDA eventually burn their bridges behind them, making
return to the real world impossible.  After that point, they can be treated
like dogs.<<

In rereading it I see that what you meant was that SYDA recruits are
encouraged to kiss up to and stroke their own family members at the beginning
and later can treat THEM as dogs.  I don't want you to think I misconstrued
your entire post (I didn't) but tha one line slipped through the wrong way
and somehow I had read it to mean that once "SYDAites" had burned their
bridges behind them you were saying it was okay to treat those "too-far-gone
ones" like dogs.  Sorry about that!

Subj:  1/2 Saying "yes" and "no"
Date:  96-07-18 17:39:34 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 2

Dear Larry and AOL readers,

Larry, thanks for trying to get at what I was saying.  I don't want to beat
this to death, but I've got to say that you misread me again--this time by
taking the quote out of context.  Anyway, I think the point about how
disciples are mistreated is significant enough to warrant a little more
message space, so let me try again.

Larry, I honestly don't know where you got this from:

(Larryom says) <<>>

This is not what I was saying.  Larry, you quote this from me:

>>(Howie says) The kissy-poo social stroking is most important at the
recruitment stage.<<

What I meant here is, in SYDA, newcomers are treated very well.  I'm talking
about how newcomers are treated.  This good treatment is built into the
propaganda setup.  (Ex-staff members in programming, please do step up and
vouch for all of this with details if you like.)

There is a lot of love bombing, and the propaganda is designed to make sure,
in superficial ways, that everyone feels welcome and comfortable.  High in
the seva chain, a lot of effort is spent to  make SYDA seem utopian to
newcomers.  SYDA lavishes attention on intro materials and programs, and on
"face" people.  That's what I meant by kissy-poo social stroking at the
recruitment stage.  They make things look good up front--till the recruit is
hooked.

SEE PART 2
Subj:  2/2 Saying "yes" and "no"
Date:  96-07-18 17:40:03 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 2

Dear AOL readers,

Larry quotes this:

  >>(Howie says) People who are in SYDA eventually burn their bridges behind
them, making return to the real world impossible.  After that point, they can
be treated like dogs.<<

What I meant here is, after newcomers come out of the honeymoon period they
are often, and routinely, treated poorly.  This is stage two--the
post-honeymoon stage.  Inner circle people who live at the ashram and can't
leave easily are the extreme example I was thinking of, but outer circle
people are often in too deep also.

Basically, in this quote I am talking about the point where a newcomer
becomes an ex-newcomer.  They have become a disciple (some might say an
"oldtimer").  What do I mean by "treated like dogs"?  Let's put aside the
case of SYDA staff, and take one way in which outer circle people are
"treated like dogs."

I say they are treated like dogs because SYDA seva folk (center leaders,
Fallsburg staff, advance crew, etc.) feel comfortable at calling a
longer-time member anytime of the day or night to ask them to do any kind of
labor on the spur of the moment without regard for whether it is convenient,
possible, within their physical or mental limitations, or whether or not they
are willing to spend the resources involved (often out-of-pocket expenses are
incurred by the sevite).  If you are called and choose to say "no" to a seva
request, an incredible battery of negative sanctions are used to compel you
to say "yes."  To say "no" is, for many disciples, a big deal--for they have
made their identity and social reality SYDA yoga.

For people whose reality is SYDA, caving in to unreasonable seva demands is
preferable to the turmoil of feeling marginalized or ostracized from the
"utopia" of SYDA (or the feeling of having displeased the inner or outer
guru).  So people comply, even with extreme requests from seva bosses.
(Again, ex-SYDA staff please feel free to supply details about this if you
wish.)

SYDA disciples who are in charge of sevas at different levels are VERY EXPERT
in identifying sevites who can be called upon for work.  (Ex-staffers, step
in here and corroborate, please.)  Once people who will always say "yes" are
identified, there is no limit to what they might be asked.  And if at some
point the person tries to say "no" to the seva person, there are ways built
into SYDA's thought system whereby they can be pressured into compliance.

Of course, there are positive sanctions given to people who say "yes."  They
are made to feel important, or closer to the guru, or spiritually correct, or
in the "in-crowd," etc.  Or they might simply be love-bombed for a moment or
two by a beautiful-person staff member--which for the emotionally needy is
enough.  They might be laboring in the hope of being promoted to full-time
"staff."  SYDA, like most megabuck cults, depends on a explicit (and
certainly non-mystical) system of rewards and punishments.

In short, newcomers are treated well, but once hooked, become taken for
granted as willing labor--and in extreme cases, exploited.  Everything I've
said in this message is closely based on the testimony of people I personally
know.  I've heard some real horror stories.

Subj:  Re:2/2 Saying "yes" and "no"
Date:  96-07-18 22:31:48 EDT
From:  PattyV1953

Howie notes that <>

I can vouch for this from both sides of the fence, as willing and passionate
sevite and center leader.  I was never very effective as a CL/seva captain,
and it strikes me that this was because I was often unable to ask others to
unquestioningly submit to the "demands of the path" (read: time, money,
labor), and was "too willing" to take no for an answer.  Of course, that just
meant I had to do it myself, and I had become a primo sevite.  My husband
says I am much less tense and not as crabby as I used to be, and I attribute
this directly to the relief of being able to finally say the BIG NO.

Howie also says <>

I struggled to see every request, no matter how spur-of-the-moment,
impractical, or unreasonable, as a chance to be "touched by grace."  I guess
I was just "touched."  When the Shakti Mandap was being built, they called me
in Buffalo, six hours away, in the middle of the workweek, to pick up a few
cases of tile for the "darshan tower" at American Olean.  They needed it
yesterday.  This is how it played out:  My husband (not a devotee, but always
looking to help me in my duties as center leader - because they seemed so
burdensome!) drove to Olean (90 minutes or so from Buffalo), picked up the
tile, brought it back to BUFFALO, where another sevite (fortunately
unemployed, also looking for the "touch," and now a "heathen" too) drove it
to SF.  Now, I ask you (as my husband asked me), "What's wrong with FedEx?"
All that gasoline.  All that time.  All that angst.  Frantic phone calls.  My
husband even sneaking away from his job (which was outside sales, so he
could).  My taking vacation time.

BUT IT WAS SEVA!  Weren't we lucky?  Didn't it make heavenly sense?

Howie also says, "SYDA disciples who are in charge of sevas at different
levels are VERY EXPERT in identifying sevites who can be called upon for
work....  Once people who will always say "yes" are identified, there is no
limit to what they might be asked.  And if at some point the person tries to
say "no" to the seva person, there are ways built into SYDA's thought system
whereby they can be pressured into compliance.>>

I was one of those dependable "yes" people.  It was so satisfying to know *I*
could be counted on to abandon my job and my family and sacrifice my precious
vacation time.  I was "special."  Lucky me!  I was "important" (but only
locally).  I was "spiritually correct," in the (local) "in-crowd" anyway.  So
satisfying to be saved when so many were not - or even (God forbid) chose not
to be! Maybe it was because I am not independently wealthy that I never
reached the stage of *real* insider.

Pat
Subj:  Slayva
Date:  96-07-19 05:24:57 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Dear Howie and Pat -

Yes, Gurumayi is as cynical, selfish and callous as your posts imply; and her
staff is trained to be so as well, but to look nice while doing it.   In
talking about seva, "offer an opportunity" is the code for "create the fear
that a person will not evolve spiritually, and the guilt that they will be
seen as disloyal, if they don't do what is asked of them."  We were trained
to seduce, and also trained to shame and blame and induce guilt in people who
have any kind of "no" to say to any kind of demand that's made.  But no one
takes more sadistic delight in shaming and blaming then GM herself - she sets
the tone and pulls the strings of every move her staff makes - and denies any
accountability for any of the fallout.

In looking for full-time sevites for the ashram, I learned to spot the
skillful, smart person who was lonely, depressed, and passive, and rope them
in.  Of course, I thought I was doing them the world's biggest favor -
letting them serve "the guru".  I had learned what kind of people could be
exploited and how.  Wealthy, glamourous people could be exploited by helping
them get closer to GM - making sure their every request and need was met and
that they could get access to GM as needed.  GM always has time to deal with
people with money.  The lonely depressed and poor types would be satisfied to
know that their lives were ennobled by washing dishes and vacuuming for the
guru, and receiving the occasional glance in darshan.

The incredible disorganization that Pat describes ("why not FedEx") is about
the imperious and insatiable demands GM makes - it is understood that
whatever she wants must be instantaneously delivered, but that devotees
should spend the money for it, not the ashram.  The panic anxiety about
failing to do this runs very high among her managers.  This was also the case
with George Afif, whose compulsive impulsive shopping would need a
12-thousand-Step Program to get a grip on and whose rage about not getting
what he wanted was truly frightening.  The construction companies that work
for SYDA say that the letters stand for: "So You Do it Again" - meaning, that
so much confusion and haste and lack of communication goes on in typical SYDA
projects, that whatever gets done usually has to be undone and done again in
a different way, and you're lucky if it only gets done again once.

So, Howie and Pat, it is exactly as you say, and in fact, it is much
worse.

Subj:  Warrior Joan (1 of 3)
Date:  96-07-19 12:35:13 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 3

Dear AOL readers,

Dissent's and Patty's excellent posts touch on the twin objectives of the
SYDA personality transformation:  to be both "warrior" and "egoless-shishya."
In plain talk, SYDA sees the spiritual person as both "assertive and firm"
and "yielding and surrendering."

These twin objectives can become a formula for masochism in cults.  Here's a
true story of one person's living hell formed from these two objectives.  I
need to keep this story sketchy and use fictional names so you won't guess
who I'm talking about, but it makes the point.

"Joan" is a major seva person for SYDA and has been a disciple since the 70s.
Joan is soft-spoken and all too happy to say yes, in general.  Though I find
Joan to be brainwashed, she is so gentle and receptive that it is impossible
to not like her.  She is a sweetheart.  Though haggard and quite beaten down,
her smile is still warm and attractive.

Over the years Joan has been called on to do constant seva everywhere in the
world and in her own town.  SYDA staff members gossip about how disgusting
Joan is, partly because she is gay and some of them enjoy gay-bashing, but
also because she is so meek and agreeable.  Never mind that her meekness is
the trait that enables them to "use" Joan.  The "tough" disciples despise her
for her agreeability.  In other words, Joan, in trying to be "yielding and
surrendering" has earned the contempt of sevites.

One reason some staffers despise her, I think, is because when they ask her
to do the impossible, sometimes she fails to deliver--though she strains
every resource in her attempt to succeed.  She's not great at delegating and
bossing around others, so sometimes she ends up trying to do everything in a
project herself.  Almost all of the time she does a complete and great job.
But now and then, she will fall short.  When she "fails"--fails to raise
enough money, get enough new people to special programs, stumbles while
talking etc.--higher-up sevites attribute this to her congenital meekness.
Keep in mind that these higher-up sevites get the heat from upstairs
themselves.  So one way to discharge their tension is to gossip about how
lame Joan is. (Keep in mind that even as I speak now, Joan is probably
toiling on some seva with everything she's got.)

SEE PART 2Subj:  Warrior Joan (2 of 3)
Date:  96-07-19 12:37:23 EDT
From:  Howie Sm


PART 2 OF 3

Dear AOL readers,

Joan, since she is an old-oldtimer and has advanced through the ranks over
time, is well known to, and has earned the contempt of, boss-woman.
Boss-woman over the years has, in my opinion, tortured Joan.  Joan thinks the
torture is part of the guru teaching her how to be what SYDA calls a
"warrior" (an aggressive take-charge person).  I see it as just random,
indulgent sadism--but Joan sees it as warrior-training.

Joan, ever the compliant and meek person, tries to go along--in other words,
she does her best to be a "warrior."  She talks of how great it is that
boss-woman is working on her to be more assertive.  Now and then, weird
sadistic scenarios are enacted by disciples in which Joan is the butt, and
boss-woman the architect.  Everyone, even relative newcomers, know that Joan
is being "worked on," and are always ready to hear a new story about how Joan
has been "busted."

You see, Joan knows she "should" be a warrior, so feels it is natural that
she should be "busted" for her own good.  She doesn't have that much time to
nurse her wounds from being busted since she is constantly doing seva.
Still, you sometimes see in her eyes a vacant, defensive, and fearful look.
Sometimes she seems as if reduced to the condition of a reactive, frightened
animal.

In better moments, she tries to be a warrior.  In some situations you see her
acting in an artificial way and speaking up with a louder voice that isn't
hers.  These weird displays are Joan trying to behave like a "warrior."  Of
course, her act is not effective, that is, she does not come off as
assertive.  Her act just earns her more derision from the people around her
and upstairs. You see, everyone in the world knows that Joan is being busted
and worked on by the guru, so for the cruel disciples who don't like her
anyway it is like a soap opera for them to watch how Joan responds to being
tortured.

And since the torture is from the guru, it is "okay" and even "spiritual" to
enjoy what is happening to Joan.  "The guru is having fun with Joan, so why
don't we!"  they might say.  Yes, SYDA disciples sometimes become
voyeuristically sadistic, and enjoy watching Joan squirm.  "How glorious that
Joan's ego is being worked on!" they might say, in their sadistic pleasure.
Their sadism is understandable, for many of them are unhappy.  Misery loves
company.  Some not-so-oldtimers are openly jealous of Joan's important sevas.
They want her seva, and think they could do better (as they will readily tell
you), so feel righteous when they see Joan being chastised as an incompetent.


SEE PART 3Subj:  Warrior Joan (3 of 3)
Date:  96-07-19 12:38:52 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 3 OF 3

Dear AOL readers,

Joan has been in this masochistic circuit for years and years and years.  For
Joan there seems to be no progress, no breakthrough, no burning through
samskaras, no "aha" arrival into a condition of basking in the guru's love.
Just a never-ending ordeal of reacting to penetrating stimuli.

Here's how the masochistic circuit works.  It plays the concepts of "warrior"
and "surrendered shishya" against one another.  You get disciple X into a
submissive position, like Joan's.  Then you demand of disciple X that she
become dominant and assertive (warrior-like). This is obviously impossible,
because disciple X, BY THE CODE OF SYDA SPIRITUALITY AND THE RULES OF SEVA
HIERARCHY, is required to always be egoloess and take whatever is heaped upon
her.

If the boss-woman herself takes an interest in disciple X becoming a warrior,
then disciple X is really in trouble because disciple X absolutely cannot
lash back at the boss-woman!  No one is allowed to be assertive with the
boss-woman (except Afif).  So disciple X stays submissive, and thus eternally
fails to become a warrior.  The boss and her peanut gallery seize upon
disciple X's failure.  This gives them the "right" to "help" disciple X.  The
way they do this is, they enact sadistic scenario after scenario, which makes
disciple X the talk of the centers and the ashrams.

Disciple X's masochistic circuit serves a public function.  Disciples
everywhere can discharge their tension and SYDA-related frustrations by
taking time out to voyeuristically enjoy and gossip about SYDA's grand
scapegoat--the highly-visible, frantic and discomfited, disciple X.  After
watching swamis and many disciple Xs over the years, the masses become
conditioned to accept "busting" as a form of "grace."  This desensitization
sets up the disciples to be exploited themselves.

The purpose of publicly displaying this masochistic circuit is to make it
clear to EVERYONE that all power is concentrated in the hands of the guru.
Why is this important?  Let's remember that disciples vicariously live
through the guru.  Disciples feel rich because the guru is rich.  They feel
beautiful because the guru and her home is beautiful.  They feel powerful
because the guru is powerful.  So watching a scapegoat squirming in a
sadomasochistic trap--because it is a strong demonstration of the guru's
TOTAL DOMINATION OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING--makes disciples feel more powerful.
This is very sick.  Put bluntly, the guru and her disciples get off on
watching Joan being tortured.

Where the goal is "perfection" and the vehicle is a person who "busts egos,"
you will inevitably have a sadomasochistic circuit.  And where a whole
society, thousands strong, is driven by fantasies of power, self-control, and
perfection, you will inevitably have an army of accomplices who will look the
other way--or rationalize wildly.  Disciples will say or do anything in order
to stay close to what they perceive is a great source of power.  Raw displays
of sadism--as medieval heads of state well knew--are an effective way to
convey the impression of power to the masses.

"I think Joan is getting very near a breakthrough.  Don't you?  The guru is
really working on her! Just like a scriptural story.  SMKJ."

Subj:  Re:Our religious impulses 1/2
Date:  96-07-19 14:06:35 EDT
From:  BVena

This from Howie
>>>>> I just saw at a SYDA ashram perhaps thousands of people ringing on
command, IN LOCKSTEP UNISON, little Pavlovian bells while thinking given,
designated thoughts.  It was undisguised behavioral mod.  Doesn't a term like
"mind control" fit this scenario? <<<<<<

scary or funny...all the Whoos on Whovill singing Dahoo Dahoo..would make a
great animation short


Subj:  A few more minutes w/H.R.
Date:  96-07-20 11:05:31 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914      

SY has itself a brand-new trustee (ethnically correct, to replace the
gap left by the former foundation president, famous, and rich as
Croesus), and he is Being Filled with Enthusiasm and Singing God's
Glory.  Just look at these selected portions of his "Guru Purnima"
letter:

"Haven't we wondered a thousand times over, day in and day out, how we
can truly express our gratitude for the transforming power of grace
that flows so freely from Master to disciple?"

((Hrdy Rooney notes: when you hear the words "gratitude," "gift," or
"freely" from someone in SY, it's a sure thing someone's fingers are
on your wallet.))

"When we deeply ponder such an invaluable subject as gratitude, which
is so dear to our hearts, and where the increased awareness of the
worth of our lives is valued; it is as though, hearing the longing cry
of our souls, divine grace makes itself manifest so that we can have
the *deep* satisfaction of being able to offer our profound feelings
of appreciation."

((Buzz words: invaluable...worth...valued...offer.  Who writes this
stuff, someone with a Ph.D. in advertising???))

"Isn't it our great good fortune..."

((Oh, God, it's the "great good fortune" phrase.  We are so fortunate,
wouldn't we just be the worst slobs if we didn't ante up right now?))

"...that every year such a special occasion for this gratitude
presents itself?"

((What, only one such special occasion?  Geez, I feel so deprived and
inadequate now.  Can't wait for the next big opportunity.))

He goes on to tell the story of Guru Purnima, a holiday the sage Vyasa
created as a way for disciples to honor the guru through "gifts and
celebration."  Now that we are lying in a puddle of our own
gratitude-imbued tears, he tells us...

"I feel so blessed to be part of this and to have the opportunity to
invite you, withh great respect and love, to offer your contribution
as generously as you can to express your personal gratitude from the
depths of your heart...Let us join hands together in joyful
determination and walk towards the Guru's light...May your Guru
Purnima grant you the perfect boon and fulfill your deepest wishes."

((And a SGMKJ to you, too!))


Subj:  What did I feel at SY? 1/2
Date:  96-07-20 16:35:02 EDT
From:  Howie Sm        

PART 1 OF 2

Dear AOL readers,

In part of a letter, Shridevi wrote me:

<<>>

I respond to the board as follows:

Dear AOL readers,

I like doing leisure activities in that part of the country, and
usually schedule in about a half-dozen "observation" stops when I'm in
it.  SYDA is sometimes one of those stops.  This time my visit
coincided with the birthday.  So though I don't make a special trip to
go to SYDA--I do go now and then.  I do not mean to imply that I just
"happened to be in the area" and that I think going there is like
visiting a roadside taco stand that catches your eye.  No, it is
always VERY interesting to see SYDA in full-blown action.

I won't bore you with the details regarding the kind of eccentric
information I am curious about (having to do with my pet interests),
but will confine my response to answering Shridevi's question "what is
it like to be there - like what do you feel?"

How did I feel?  I felt I was in a different world with different
rules and values.  I felt like an H.G. Wells character who had just
landed on the planet Krakapotto.  How did I feel?  In general, I felt
comfortable and psychologically grounded.

Certain incidents did move me.  I felt a wave of sadness when I saw a
fragile looking single mother ringing her happy bells with her eyes
shut, making a wish, her small daughter (about 5) at her feet.  In
seeing her, I suddenly remembered how vulnerable we all are.  I
remembered we all have needs, and frailties.  I remembered how we
really are at the mercy of forces beyond our control.  I thought of
how we all want the best for our children, how we all fret and plan to
make sure the lives of our loved ones go well.  And then I thought of
how this frail mother was fervently putting her hopes and full
concentration on the bell, and how this mother had turned her small
daughter's and her own destiny over to the guru's magic.  And all the
while I heard a million bells ringing shrilly and insanely, throughout
the ashram.  Over the din, I thought: what's going to happen to this
little girl, with this single mother who rings the bell?  Anyway, I
felt sad for a minute.  You know what I mean?

I saw a single man in his late-fifties, early-sixties--not healthy
looking--lost in devotional fervor and thought about what Fibonacci
mentioned online.  Fibonacci talked about people growing out of SYDA.
Well, here was a man approaching his final years who was just
beginning SYDA.  When he figures it out--and he will--it will be late,
maybe too late.  What will happen to him if his spiritual floor drops
out just at the end of his life?  Is it better if he just dies a happy
zombie? That can't be right!  Isn't there anyone out there who will
love him now, and bring some dignity and spiritual fullness to his
golden years--so he doesn't have to do THIS?  Shridevi asks what I
felt.  I felt horror at seeing this man, and thinking these thoughts.
Like this man, I too will live, grow old, and die.  How will I end up?
Surely, not reduced to this!  We humans are frail creatures.

SEE PART 2

Subj:  What did I feel at SY? 2/2
Date:  96-07-20 16:35:07 EDT
From:  Howie Sm        

PART 2

Dear AOL readers,

How did I feel when I saw Gurumayi walking by me with a WALL of
disciples following her?  I felt surprise that I still reacted to the
sight, given how many times I have seen such scenarios in different
settings.  My reaction was one of being being taken aback.  I saw
again how addictive and obsessive the guru-attachment becomes, and how
SYDA's shtick does everything to heighten the obsession and nothing to
mitigate it.  Those who have read my posts, try to reconstruct what I
felt.  Here I was, cranky Howie, watching this raw,
scratching-and-clawing, me-me-me scrambling after the guru's ass.
Yes, I was taken aback, and, as if I had never seen such ass-chasing
before, did think: "WHAT HAS GOTTEN INTO THESE PEOPLE?"  Some of them
looked like my New York attorneys!  There Gurumayi was, smiling,
gliding, movie-star beautiful.  Are the strong lines of her sculpted
facial expressions cruel or elegant?  Is the smile cynically
megalomaniacal, or tenderly loving?  You tell me.  Dorian Gray city.

For those who care about this sort of thing, perhaps I should say that
I felt absolutely no "stirrings of SYDA-consciousness" even though I
was in the atmosphere of the ashram at a peak moment and within
spitting distance of GM.  Does this mean I am soulless, or sane?  you
tell me.

Now, my spiritual experiences.  The night was exceptionally beautiful,
and for nature worshippers like me, God was there.  You could see
stars and stars above, and the breeze was cool and still.  Since the
disciples were all packed around the guru, much of the ashram area was
vacant, quiet--save the tiny sounds of the fauna and rustling wind.
That night, that beautiful night, was enough for my soul.  So I guess
I had my God experience in South Fallsburg!  One couldn't help but
think: "Why is everyone fixated on the bizarre goings-on and video
monitors when this night is here for us, waiting for us, with its
silent, sparkling calm?"

Without making an effort to do it, before exiting I did end up
accidentally Howitzering a couple of people.  I swear it was an
accident!  After all, I have rules.  For example, no passing out of
Rodarmor articles in the vicinity of SYDA programs.  In general, I
don't think it is right for me to try on-the-fly amateur attempts at
deprogramming on SYDA premises.  But I always say what I think if
prodded.  And people did prod.

Shridevi asks: what's it like talking to people, and how do I do it?
I've gone on too long already.  And I want to keep certain details
about my visit vague.  Suffice it say that interactions with people
were most, most interesting.  Shridevi asks: Why do I go?  Allow me to
be evasive here, and say merely that SYDA remains interesting for
me--primarily for reasons other than what I've gone into here or
discuss online.  I will tell you that I'm sure I will visit it again.

Disclaimer: By the way, I'm not a secret agent or spy or anticult
employee.  I'm just loudmouth Howie, the man with a million contacts
(even in SYDA) and a billion eccentric hobbies.

Subj:  Re:For Patty: Part 8.
Date:  96-07-20 18:58:24 EDT
From:  PattyV1953      

I'll be honest: I'm weak.  I peeked.  (No one dares blame me.  How
many of *you* have gotten eight pages out of Naradaji?  Now, Howie, I
mean *all at once*!)

I *was* a virgin.  I had never *really* ROTFL'd till this, and I
didn't even know what I was missing!

(Yes, I believed the Foundation was just a janitorial and
tranportation service.  Perhaps Narada could repost everything I ever
wrote on any SY board so people can really see how much farther I've
come than him in *such* a short time.)

In keeping with the plea for not straying to the level of e-mail flame
wars, let me add that, in general (the octopus we all just read being
a notable exception), the posts to this board reflect honest
contemplation about the moral inconsistencies that we unexpectedly
found ourselves a part of in SY.  We post about how getting into SY
was much easier than getting out - or even staying in!  The last thing
we expected when we walked into our first program was the
moral/emotional/physical/financial/ philosophical (you name it - it
touches everything) dilemma that we confront here - within ourselves
as well as in others.  It's probably as much a "path" as any, and
certainly more real than the last one I was on.

Lest any lurker get the wrong idea, ours are not some lunatic laundry
list of delusion that (unlike for Narada - not to be confused with the
sage - Mr. "Thank God, I was above what all *you* had to go through,
poor slobs!" - condescension by any other name would stink the same)
really happened in a thousand different ways to each one of us.  It is
an important forum for letting people know that there is something
else which was "people's experience" in SY.

Pat

Subj:  Re:A few more minutes w/H.R.
Date:  96-07-20 19:40:01 EDT
From:  Howie Sm        

Dear Hrdaya,

That Guru Purnima fund-raising letter is so sappy!  Those excerpts you
just posted lay it on thicker than the sobbing Jimmy Swaggert.  And
the writing is convoluted and absurdly indirect.  You said it all
(great commentary, Hrdaya!)--but I can't resist jumping in for a
minute.

I don't think there is anything wrong with spiritual organizations
doing fund-raising.  But this fund-raising style crosses the line.
SYDA really didn't have to lay the doublespeak gratitude-guilt-trip on
thick like this.  But they chose to. That speaks volumes about the
organization and its way of "managing" its flock.

Look what happens when you cut out the little words in between.  This
is how some of it reads:

<<<"Haven't we wondered . . how we can . . .express our gratitude for
the . . .power . . .that flows . . .from Master . . .?">>>

<<>

<<<"When we . . .ponder . . .gratitude . . .and where the increased
awareness . . .is valued; . . ./we can have the . . .satisfaction of
being able to offer our . . .appreciation.">>>

If one takes a second to actually read what the words mean, all that
can be said is: This is darn convoluted.  Darn, darn weird.  BRRRRR.
Gives you the shakedown shivers.

Q.  Why can't they just write a sane donation letter?  Why make it
weird like this?

A.  Probably because it actually matches the strange way the disciples
have been programmed to think.  SYDA propagandists know what they are
doing.

Subj:  Creative Energy?
Date:  96-07-24 14:37:27 EDT
From:  PERDUCO

More fuel:

QUESTION #1: what is it in SY that causes the dissipation or narrow
channeling of creative energies?

For example, I recently recieved some poetry from an "associate" of mine who
is deeply involved in SY. He is a highly educated and wealthy friend who has
travelled the world on a whim, has engaged in all kinds of pursuits--of the
flesh and of the spirit. He was versed in the most unique poets. He himself
WROTE great poetry with unique structure. It flowed, and yet remained
unpredictable. Now he sends me a poem--after years of being imbued with
SY--and it sounds like a parroting right out of Muktananda's "Reflections of
the Self" book. Worse yet, it sounds like the opening remarks of an emcee
during an evening program. Cliche', predictable, bereft of uniqueness and
lacking sincerity. Someone on these boards mentioned how Swami Durgananda
(??) used to be a very talented and creative writer until her absorbtion into
SY.

QUESTION #2: What is it about SY that causes otherwise strong individualistic
minds to begin to parrot the party line so easily?

Subj:  Re:Creative Energy?
Date:  96-07-24 15:03:43 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914

I will try to answer Perduco's 2 questions from my own experience with one
answer for both:

<>

and

<>

In my case it was, purely and simply, the need for love and approval.  If I
wrote poetry expressing the pain of separation from the guru, or about the
wonder of the inner lights, I could share it at satsang and get a lot of
strokes.  So too, if one parrots the party line, which is after all the party
line of the Beloved, one is "aligned with the shakti" and a card-carrying
member of the Love Bomb Society, the spiritual Mickey Mouse Club.  Instant
love, instant approval, instant family.  Cross the line into individuality
and you'll be relieved of your precious mouse ears.

Individuality = difference.  The part of SY that felt so good to me for so
long was in not being different.  As I get my own voice back, I find that I
am p-o-ing a lot of people close to me, because my strength as an individual
is threatening their wish that everything be homogeneously nicey-nice.

It just happened to me this morning, with someone I have been very close to
for a long time.  This person's defense was to paint me as being a total
cynic, which is not true. He told me that while he loved me
"unconditionally," he could not love my cynicism.  I am very hurt by this.  I
know that I could have this person's "unconditional love" by burying this
cynical side of me, a side I have to embrace if I am to be a real person and
not a yogaclone.  It's not worth it to me to always have this stuff bubbling
under the surface.  I know it' s not going to go away.  But in getting more
real about who I am I'm going to incur a lot of loss.  Not everyone in SYDA
can deal with that.

Subj:  Re:Creative Energy?
Date:  96-07-24 15:22:48 EDT
From:  JJanetH2

I agree with you hrdaya.

Subj:  Re:Creative Energy?
Date:  96-07-24 21:15:23 EDT
From:  JJanetH2

Oh Hrdaya, what happened to my Siddha Yoga dream? In the beginning I thought
Siddha Yoga was a wish fulfilled and my life had a purpose. It was fun for a
while but everything turned sour. Siddha Yoga is just like any other rotten
thing. All the scandals, the mean people, and the money grubbing!  Omigod.
None of us were evolving into perfect beings. So we quit smoking or were
blissed out. We also all became crazy cult people. I'm sorry, but that
sadhana really @#$%!

Subj:  Re:family at the ashram
Date:  96-07-24 22:28:27 EDT
From:  Blue62713

Hello all,
I still have family members who live in the South Fallsburg ashram. They have
conveyed to me that they never want to speak with me about Siddha Yoga again.
If SY is their whole life, that leaves us very little to talk about! As a
result we aren't in touch.

I want them to know that I still love them and yet I am repulsed that they
remain in the murky mental bog of Siddha Yoga. The salt in my wound is that
they know I have left and are not even curious why. (It goes without saying
that this is because they think I have fallen from the path.)
I am caught between wanting to help them "wake up" (nearly impossible from my
standpoint) and feeling resentful that they have shut me out of their lives.
From my side, my resentment is what maintains the distance between us. From
their side, . . . we know all about that. No need to go on about the land of
baba brainwash.

Do you have any experience with this? Does anyone have advice? Thoughts? What
sort of things have worked? Not worked?

thanks in advance,
Blue

Subj:  Purification and angst 1/2
Date:  96-07-24 22:45:40 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 2

Dear AOL readers,

PERDUCO asks

<<>>

Lots of things, to be sure.  However there are two concepts I can think of
that is important.

The first is the concept of PURIFICATION.

SYDA (and some tantric folk) hold that impulses should be held within to
generate yogic heat.  According to this line of thought, yogic heat is what
"pierces" blockages and "burns out" impurities. In the hope of these
benefits, people who were formerly creative and expansive put a lot of effort
into become self-lobotomized and self-pinheadized pressure cookers.

These pressure-cooker people change for the worse.  Brilliant
writer/journalist/talkers adopt a diet of equal parts of silence and
SYDAspeak (and actually listen to Gurumayi's talking!).  Inspired,
confrontational visual artists turn to "van art" SYDA stylings.  Famous and
influential musicians in the lesbian community become dyed-blonde Barbie doll
MOR singers.  Young adults full of life, with so much love to give to a life
partner, decide to become celibate and eshew human closeness.  People with
natural talent in one work area praise their mis-assignment to an OPPOSITE
SEVA in which they are incompetent--"it's great for my ego," they say.  What
a waste!

All this waste, purportedly in an attempt to tame out-of-control egos--to
purify, to obey, to show gratitude, to strengthen their will, to diminish
worldliness.  All this for PURIFICATION.

SEE PART 2
Subj:  Purification and angst 2/2
Date:  96-07-24 22:45:49 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 2

Dear AOL readers,

Then there is EXISTENTIAL ANGST.

This is not a SYDA concept--it is what SYDA claims to abolish, to answer, and
to eradicate eternally.  A lot of people, and a lot of creative people, have
tried out a lot of things.  People who experience the high of being
incredibly creative, or talented, or socially successful, or wealthy quickly
figure this out:  ain't nothin' gonna explain life, death.  Nothin'.  So
existential angst sets in.  When that happens, you have the situation that
PERDUCO is talking about:  people who have a lot going for them, deciding to
flush themselves down the cult toilet.  Some people say creative artists are
oversensitive and vulnerable to bouts of angst.  If so, perhaps that
contributes to why creativity and cult-lobotomies sometimes make good
bedfellows (as PERDUCO mentions).

Cultists are hubristic, in my opinion.  It is hubristic to think one can find
a fast answer.  It is hubristic to believe in theories of shortcut
self-perfection.  To go for total purification.  To make a claim on a
totalized, verbalized path to truth.  To only listen to grandiose unqualified
platitudes.  To embrace a ready-made lifestyle.

Most of us have done a helluva a lot of meditating, spiritual back-slapping,
opining, and intellectual algebra.  After all we've said and done, don't our
guts tell us that life is inscrutable, at bottom?  So what's the deal with
hubristic people who go for totalizing spiritual systems?  (I'm not talking
about the religiously inclined--I'm talking about card-carrying cultists.)
Do we really have to beat the baby-bathwater argument to death again after
all the miles we've trekked?  I think not.

Dear AOL readers, I cannot help but see life as ever-inscrutable.  I must
leave purification teleologies for others--not because "I am right and they
are wrong"--but, rather, because the cult rhetoric about the "totally
perfected being" goes against my every instinct of what it means to be human.
I respect and think about the idea of sainthood, to be sure--but never do my
thoughts stray near to what the cults tell us.

So I accept life as inscrutable.  I think it is that "not-knowing" that spurs
us on.  I like to think that the trap PERDUCO describes vanishes if the
mystery of human life is embraced.  Regardless, existential angst will never
go away.  But do we want it to?  To not feel the agony and ecstasy of being
human is the same as being dead.  We are frail creatures, subject to
changeable moods, to loss, to mortality.  These are things we don't like to
dwell on.  But we are a lot more things than that.  We are many great things
also.  To be fully human--frailties and strengths and all, with
self-awareness--seems right.

Subj:  Re:Purification and angst
Date:  96-07-24 23:51:33 EDT
From:  Hrdaya2914

I welcome you all with all my darts.  A great being, Howie Sm, once said:

<>

Let us take a moment to contemplate this wonderful statement.  We who once
dedicated ourselves to SYDA in the name of being fully human, fully alive,
mistakenly thought that to realize the Self was to "rise above" human
frailties and strengths -- to submerge our very human-ness in hopes of
attaining a "state" that very possibly doesn't exist, at least not for the
mentally healthy.

We thought that self-awareness was Self-awareness -- a sort of fugue state in
which emotions, thoughts,  and body consciousness could be observed from the
higher plane of our divinity.  But as Mahatma Howie points out, we can have
our strengths, we can have our weaknesses, and we can embrace all of these
sides of ourselves.  We don't have to understand it from some higher level or
from any level, as long as we are living our lives as consciously and
conscienciously as we can.

(Gee, I feel just like Jnaneshwar Maharaj paraphrasing Lord Krishna!)

Thank you, Howie.  Your words are *chaitanya,* alive with the consciousness
of someone who has lived a real life.  Inspired by your wisdom, I, Hrdaya,
hereby embrace my own sweet and not-so-sweet qualities, take back my
personality, warts and all...my God-given talents and my right to express
them whether or not they offend anyone's sensibilities... and yes, my big fat
self-serving Ego...in the name of the only true freedom I understand --
freedom to be the HUMAN BEING that I am.

We will now very sweetly chant the words of another great being -- Jerry
Whatsisname, who wrote the music to La Cage Aux Folles -- "I Am What I Am."
As we repeat this great five-syllable mantra, let us reflect on our own
greatness as individuals, each one a unique expression of God's own greatness
-- or in any rate, His sense of humor!

With great flyspeck and glove,
Hrdy Rooneyananda

Subj:  Re:family at the ashram
Date:  96-07-25 00:07:05 EDT
From:  Larryom

>>Do you have any experience with this? Does anyone have advice? Thoughts?
What sort of things have worked? Not worked?<<

Simple advice: Write to them.  If you can't talk to them because you can't
get a conversation going before they hang up, get all your feelings down on
paper (or disk or e-mail) and send them a letter that you are satisfied with
as conveying that which you want to convey to them.  Of course, it may or may
not work--they may just tear up the letter unread--but if you start out with
telling them you still love them and establish at least SOME common ground
they may then be willing to read on as you segue into the more compelling
reasons why you don't trust SYDA anymore.  And go slowly at first if you need
to. Try to establish personal contact rather than substantive attacks on
their chosen lifestyle to begin with.  Hope this helps.

Subj:  Re:Creative
Energy?
Date:  96-07-25 00:17:39 EDT
From:  Larryom

>>In the beginning I thought Siddha Yoga was a wish fulfilled and my life had
a purpose. It was fun for a while but everything turned sour<<

 I can't help asking myself why not look at what the "purpose" WAS that made
it seem personally meaningful? If you felt good about serving God or a higher
purpose, and the figurehead (GM) turned out to be corrupt, then why not still
serve a higher purpose?  Why not do "seva" for some cause or other that you
believe in or would be happy to support? There are a million noble causes out
there with good comraderie among the volunteers, and less pressure to always
do more than your fair share (a la SYDA).  And if you like the self-discovery
aspects of the SY "promise" then that too can be pursued in many different
ways with a lot less surrender of personal will and a lot more presence of
mind going in.

Subj:  Re:Purification and angst
Date:  96-07-25 00:58:50 EDT
From:  Larryom

I have to  thank both Howie and Hrdaya.  Those last two posts are without a
doubt among the best I've read!  Thank you.  And Hrdaya, your sense of humor
is definitely "highly evolved!"  I want to say something of what I'm feeling
and I'll try not to sound too sappy...

Freeing ourselves from a carved-in-stone belief in human perfectibility and
how to get there is a liberating experience.  Turning off, stifling, or
denying our emotions in the name of "rising above them" is never healthy.  I
don't think that means you have to act everything out in elaborate scale
either, but certainly burying or denial of what I feel conflicted about is
the surest road to anxiety I know.  I guess that's why I always went back to
Kripalu even during my SY days--because for me they nurtured the fragile
humaness and honored the sensitivity and the pain of life in a way that SYDA
always seemed to deny an hush up. I guess I was lucky in that the combination
seemed to work for me so I couldn't deny my conflicts about the two paths and
so agonized over it repeatedly for years. Maybe it helped keep me sane
somehow to know I was never "fully surrendered to one path." Who knows?

Despite all this, I still like some of the advice that some of the "saints"
give.  I just would rather have the concept  of  the infinite end of the
human consciousness spectrum be a light toward which I can point myself when
I want to orient myself in terms of direction, rather than something I have a
hard-and-fast faith in or hard-and-fast rules or beliefs about.  That doesn't
mean I have a timetable or expectation of arriving at infinity in this
lifetime, and it surely doesn't mean I can't enjoy the journey and road I'm
on today at least as much as I do the fantasy about the light itself.  And
best of all, it means not judging all the rest of us either. Of course we
each have our individual ways of "showing up" in the world. And that can make
it more fun if we just enjoy the adventure of NOT knowing it all.

Subj:  helping relatives
Date:  96-07-25 06:11:34 EDT
From:  Dissent222

Dear Blue -

The situation of having a relative at the ashram is also my situation.  My
relative refuses to have anything to do with me, down to not saying hello at
family gatherings.  Attempts at reconnecting have been rebuffed.  Larry's
suggestions on how to try to communicate make sense, but be prepared for the
tearing up of the letter.  Reaching an ashramite can take years of
unrewarding, painful efforts.  The only reward is the hope that someday, the
person will come to their senses, and will appreciate that you didn't give
up.  One parent I spoke to who did succeed in getting her daughter out of
Hare Krishna said that what worked best was not anger or tears or intense
emotion, but clear, firm, loving conviction.  When this mother was able,
after many failures, to be caring and assertive without being anxious or
hysterical, that had an impact on her daughter.

Relatives who want to try to reach ashramites have to steel themselves for a
lot of pain, because the ashramite's mechanisms of shutting out what they
don't want to know about are so incredibly strong.  The splitting of good and
bad is so radical - the guru, the ashram, syda, the group, is ALL GOOD.
Where does the bad go when it gets so artificially split off like this?  It
goes into the ones who don't accept the guru, the group, the ashram.  Your
relative may say I love and respect you, but they are actually viewing you as
toxic and don't want to be contaminated by you.  The state they are in (that
I was once in, many of us were) is very delusional and won't easily yield, in
most cases, to reason.

I wish you well in your efforts with your cousins.  There are no easy
solutions - but support is available - here and from groups like CAN of AFF
or the Cult Clinic at Jewish Board of Family and Children's Services in New
York.  CAN and AFF have World Wide Web pages.

Good luck!

Subj:  Infinity seekers 1/2
Date:  96-07-25 11:50:29 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 1 OF 2

Dear Larry,

Greetings.

You say

<<< I just would rather have the concept of the infinite end of the human
consciousness spectrum be a light toward which I can point myself when I want
to orient myself in terms of direction>>>

Larry, what do you mean by the "infinite end of the human consciousness
spectrum"?

As I sit here, trying to verbalize about the great beyond, God transcendent
rather than immanent--whatever one cares to call it--images come to mind:  I
think of the childlike excitement about the "something wonderful which is
always on the verge of happening"--an excitement that is the opposite of
spiritual depression.  I think of the human drive to move towards the edges
of what is known.  I think of the religious awe that everyone is born with,
the unshakeable sense that there is more than what is seen.

I don't at all think in the terms you use, and find them odd and
self-cancelling.  Bear with me as I try to explain my impression.  The terms
you use--"saints" and "human consciousness spectra" and "light" and "pointing
oneself" (teleological directionality) might be fine for you, but they are
too, way too overly deterministic for me.  (Let me quickly add that I have no
problem with our differences--I'm fine with pluralism.)  I can come up with
images and metaphors to express how I am inspired and drawn towards the
beyond--but I wouldn't lay all those loaded terms and attributes on "it."
Cults have drummed these sorts of terms into people's heads to serve as
motivating carrots-on-a-stick.  That colors them further.

SEE PART 2
Subj:  Infinity seekers 2/2
Date:  96-07-25 11:51:34 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

PART 2

Dear Larry,

My biggest objection to the way you have put this is that while I sense you
want to be perceived as ideology neutral and all-embracing, I can't see how
that is the case.  Indeed, I can't see how that can be the case for any
person, including myself.  So I am asking you, what are the beliefs and
attitudes that lie behind your terminology?  Getting right to the point now:
Isn't the notion of orienting oneself towards the infinite (in a generic
ideologically-neutral way) self-repudiating?  I can see orienting oneself
towards a symbol of the infinite, or a religious doctrine, or a specific
emotional state.  But to be generically oriented towards the infinite doesn't
wash.  That reminds me of SYDA la-la-land rhetoric.  "SYDA is not a religion,
and nonsectarian;  SYDA yoga pursues the same infinite that all cultures have
done throughout history--now please memorize our copyrighted recipe of
attitudes and actions that support this nonsectarianism."

It seems that people construct their identities by judging and then adopting
SPECIFIC lifestyles, beliefs, and attitudes.  We are all committed
ideologically to something, even if by default.  We cannot just be
nonsectarian vacuum-dwellers.  As humans we create FINITE things to mediate
our contemplation of the INFINITE.  What those finite things are become our
religion, our art, our culture.  Those finite things are what can be
discussed; those finite things are what should be judged and evaluated.  The
misjudging those finite human bracketing of God is where things go horribly
astray in our society.  (Take Aum Shinrikyo, for example.)

Given this, I would appreciate you clarifying--putting in more specific
terms--what you mean by staying oriented towards a "concept of the infinite
end of the human consciousness spectrum." How does this concept influence
your lifestyle; how does it align your thinking and behavior?  Any specifics?
Are you committed to the implications of the terms you have chosen?  I sense
you have rejected SYDA's ideology to some degree.  I am sincerely curious as
to what degree.  I really cannot tell where you are at from your posts, for
they are always (in my reading) rippling with undertones.  I'm not interested
in debunking your views--I'm just unclear as to what they are.  I think the
themes you raise strike at the core problems in SYDA.

Subj:  Denial patterns
across cults
Date:  96-07-25 11:52:11 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

Dear Larry,

You say

<<>>

I have followed Kripalu for years.  I accept Larry's point of view; let me
briefly offer a different take.  I find Kripalu embarrassing, and
illustrative of how deep cult brainwashing goes.  Their head has been cut
off, and they are talking about what brand of band-aid to buy. In my opinion,
they are suffering collectively from big-time denial of underlying issues.
Many of Fibonacci's posts apply to Kripalu as well as to SYDA.

This is not a Kripalu folder, so I'm not trying to start a thread on it.   I
mention it here because it bears on SYDA; I think that stereotyped modalities
of denial cut across party lines.

Subj:  Witness consciousness
Date:  96-07-25 11:52:57 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

Dear Larry,

Hrdaya says

<<>>

Larry, you have defended this sort of self-regarding (meditative witness
state) in earlier posts.  You say it has worked well for you.  I specifically
recall you advising Dissent that he should observe his emotions from above,
from a witness state, and that his failure to do so is somehow linked to his
negative perception of SYDA.  I remember being offended by your whole
approach in those messages.

Maybe your views have changed.  Help me out here:  do you agree with Hrdaya?
Can you tell us again how to be witnesses in a way that also respects
Hrdaya's objections?  And do you still adjudge Dissent' failure to enter
witness-consciousness as problematic?  Or perhaps you disagree with Hrdaya's
point here?

Of course it is wise to have a sense of reserve, and the capacity to view
things from different "distances."  That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm
referring to your claim that Dissent "missed the point of SYDA," so to speak,
partly due to his failure to enter witness-consciousness--a state you
continue to utilize.  Are you just talking about having a sense of
reserve--or something more specifically SYDAesque?  Let us know your most
recent views, when you have a chance.  Thanks.

Subj:  SYDA web page
Date:  96-07-25 14:53:56 EDT
From:  Howie Sm

Dear AOL readers,

Someone has put up a new SYDA web page at

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7038/

Subj:  reconnecting
Date:  96-07-29 10:27:41 EDT
From:  Fibonacci8

Hi everyone.  I haven't done much writing lately but I've been doing a lot of
thinking and I wanted to share some thoughts.  One of the things that's
happened to me is that I've been reconnecting with old friends from pre-cult
days that I'd lost touch with.  Also reconnecting with parts of myself that
had been lost and presumed dead.  All part of the same process I guess.  So
far it's been a
remarkable summer.

When I got onto the internet last year I started searching for people who I'd
lost track of.  I found a
few including one that I used to listen to local bands with over ten years
ago.  It turned out she
was living a just a few hundred miles away from where I am.  We sent some
emails and she told
me about an outdoor music festival she was going to in Michigan, about half
way between where she and I are.

I went to the festival and had a fabulous time.  She was doing very well and
we were glad to see
each other again.  That in itself was wonderful but in addition to
reconnecting with her there were
other things.  I hadn't pitched my tent and camped out since the late '80s
and that felt great too.
And then there was the music and the dancing.  Those things were major
sources of nourishment
for me before my cult years and I thought they were gone forever.  But they
weren't.  It was like a
part of my soul that was lost and withered sprang back to life with
astounding force and vibrance.
I'm still reeling from the whole thing a few weeks later.

The best of the bands at the festival was called Donna the Buffalo.  They're
an east coast band
but they occansionally get here to Michigan or even farther west to play.
They are all excellent
musicians and you can tell right away that as people they are rooted in an
ethical sensibility and
unpretentious human decency.  Their lyirics are upward looking and socially
conscious without
being trite or self important.  And the music is very dancable.  It just
didn't seem possible to stand still while they were playing.  The title song
to their new CD "The Ones You Love" can be
downloaded from their web site at
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/wildlife/donna/toyl.html    Highly
recommended listening.

I realize this may all seem off topic, but it's about post-cult reconnecting
with long lost friends and
long lost parts of my own soul.  This message board mainly serves an
intellectual purpose in the
overall picture of post-SY life.  I'm posting this message to share with you
a less intellectual
aspect of my own post-SY healing, in the hope that it will resonate with some
of you.  I also hope
at least one person in this folder will download the song "The Ones You
Love".  Part of the song
goes:

The roads lead on, tracking every bend
Taking every turn, turning to a friend.
It all comes down
And rises above
It all comes down
To the ones you love.

I haven't been posting much lately and that will probably continue for a
while, but I think of you all
with fondness.
Fibonacci

Subj:  Leaving Siddha Yoga Web Page
Date:  96-07-29 14:12:09 EDT
From:  LeavingSY

Hello,

This is my first post here, but I have been reading your notes for sometime.
I would like to add to the wonderful work that has already been done.

R.

There is a new web page that has the other side of siddha yoga.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7038/

There are 2 main parts: the first includes articles and the second has
stories. Currently there are two articles: the 3/23/86 message from SYDA re
the "fall" of S. Nityananda including a message from S. Childvilasananda.
This is very interesting to see what "state of mind" she was in at the time.
The second article is the O Guru, Guru, Guru article published in the New
Yorker (11/14/94). More are coming.

The second section will be a listing of stories that people have written
describing why they have left siddha yoga. This section is under
construction. (All are welcome to submit your story as well. This is done to
help ourselves and others in the process of leaving.)


Subj:  Re:reconnecting
Date:  96-07-31 22:09:12 EDT
From:  Blue62713       

Fibonacci, thanks for your post. I too have been nurtured and uplifted
by friends and "real life" activities.  My friends who were not in SY
were actually very good "meter readers" for me. They were a reality
check at times. In my darker moments I could relate a story to them
and their response would help me see through the murky mire of mind
control to a clearer place. Often to a place of assertiveness and (OK,
tacky and cliche as it is) self-empowerment.  SY friends and my family
only served to reinforce cult thinking. "you must be going through
something" , "pray to Bade Baba and it will go away" , and other snake
oil being sold and resold as wisdom at the darshan shop.  No
thanks. I'll take clarity and reality anyday over that shlock.
 
So often devotees sound like broken records. Once you can get
perspective on it, it's downright hilarious. Count on them for a
pastel saccarine (i know there's an h in that word somewhere) frosting
comment about truth, love , the self. Count on them to have suppressed
any "negative" emotions, as if burying them deep enough under
trance-state smiles will actually make them vanish.  Sheep.  Well
dressed sheep.  That brings this rambling post to a random close with
this question: What on earth do we do with all of those SARIs ?  Any
suggestions, women?  Just do it.  Make curtains.

-Blue
(i am another who chooses not to read Narada's posts)



(9/96) 
ONGOING DISCUSSION ABOUT LEAVING SYDA CONTINUES TO TAKE PLACE ON THE ETHICS MESSAGE BOARDS OF AMERICA ONLINE (keyword: ETHICS).  IN ADDITION, A "LEAVING SIDDHA YOGA" WEBSITE CAN BE LOCATED AT:
http://www.c2.net/~truth/